Poker Forum => World Championship of Amateur Poker (WCOAP) => Live Archive => Live Poker => WCOAP 2008 - 2012 => Topic started by: APAT on May 17, 2010, 13:46:18 PM
Title: S4 WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: APAT on May 17, 2010, 13:46:18 PM
The 2010 APAT World Amateur Team Poker Championship will take place as part of the World Championship of Amateur Poker festival, at Nottingham"s Dusk Till Dawn on August 26th & 27th.
The entry fee per country will be £400; with no registration fee, and exclusive International Team Shirts will be provided to all participating players and captains.
There will be 12 countries taking part in the event and they are as follows:-
Canada England France Germany Holland Italy Northern Ireland Poland Republic of Ireland Scotland Spain Wales
Each country will feature four playing members and a Captain; who may play as part of the team of four. All of whom will also receive an option to enter the World Amateur Poker Championship main event following the conclusion of the Team Championship.
The structure for the event will be announced in due course, but it is not expected to differ greatly from the structure at last year"s European Amateur Team Poker Championship (http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=4725.0).
The following videos summarise the outcome of the 2008 and 2009 European Amateur Team Poker Championships.
International Team Captains will be responsible for the selection criteria for their country. It will be a requirement; where applicable, to select the top two players from their country in the APAT National Amateur Rankings.
If either of these 2 players do not wish to play in the team championship, or are not available, will captains be required to offer the place to the third ranked player or will this revert back to the free choice of the captain?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Chipaccrual on May 17, 2010, 20:19:27 PM
International Team Captains will be responsible for the selection criteria for their country. It will be a requirement; where applicable, to select the top two players from their country in the APAT National Amateur Rankings.
If either of these 2 players do not wish to play in the team championship, or are not available, will captains be required to offer the place to the third ranked player or will this revert back to the free choice of the captain?
I would suggest it reverts back to a free choice. That would seem the correct thing to do.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on May 17, 2010, 20:22:32 PM
Some further questions.
1. Are players who have played in the pro league permitted to play?
2. Can players in this event enter into the HU and Stud events?
3. Same question as 2 above but for non-playing captains?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Chipaccrual on May 17, 2010, 20:26:05 PM
International Team Captains will be responsible for the selection criteria for their country. It will be a requirement; where applicable, to select the top two players from their country in the APAT National Amateur Rankings.
If either of these 2 players do not wish to play in the team championship, or are not available, will captains be required to offer the place to the third ranked player or will this revert back to the free choice of the captain?
I would suggest it reverts back to a free choice. That would seem the correct thing to do.
Thanks Leigh, I agree that seems correct.
I do however question the logic in forcing this requirement on Captains in the first place. There will have been only 3 UK events that count towards these ranking points at the time of choosing a team. Notwithstanding the fact that we may have some Scots going to Estonia (not sure if there were any in Austria) this doesn"t seem like a reasonable sample size to assess an individuals potential contribution to a team event.
What do we mean by where applicable? If someone from Poland was 18th in one of these events and the 2009 winning team members have no points after these events then does the lucky player get a place at the expense of one of the players on the existing winning team?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Chipaccrual on May 17, 2010, 20:48:34 PM
International Team Captains will be responsible for the selection criteria for their country. It will be a requirement; where applicable, to select the top two players from their country in the APAT National Amateur Rankings.
If either of these 2 players do not wish to play in the team championship, or are not available, will captains be required to offer the place to the third ranked player or will this revert back to the free choice of the captain?
I would suggest it reverts back to a free choice. That would seem the correct thing to do.
Thanks Leigh, I agree that seems correct.
I do however question the logic in forcing this requirement on Captains in the first place. There will have been only 3 UK events that count towards these ranking points at the time of choosing a team. Notwithstanding the fact that we may have some Scots going to Estonia (not sure if there were any in Austria) this doesn"t seem like a reasonable sample size to assess an individuals potential contribution to a team event.
What do we mean by where applicable? If someone from Poland was 18th in one of these events and the 2009 winning team members have no points after these events then does the lucky player get a place at the expense of one of the players on the existing winning team?
I agree with you there Stuart. I think there will be a certain level of discretion shown on this. It"s hard to not offer a Scotsman who may win the Scottish event a spot in the team, especially if he has played a few other APAT events this year, just as an example. But if the top two Scots have picked up a handful of points, then being able to differentiate them from any other player is tough. And some of the players in consideration may well have chosen to play the Pro league this year, and this should not rule them out of contention.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: TheSnapper on May 17, 2010, 20:53:58 PM
I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Chipaccrual on May 17, 2010, 20:57:16 PM
I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.
I agree with that too. ;D
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on May 17, 2010, 21:08:11 PM
I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.
I agree with that too. ;D
good - does that mean it"s going to change?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Chipaccrual on May 17, 2010, 22:40:09 PM
I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.
I agree with that too. ;D
good - does that mean it"s going to change?
Not my call alone, but as you guys know, sensible discussion on the APAT forum is always welcomed, and where necessary changes can be made to reflect the views of players.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: AMRN on May 17, 2010, 22:52:09 PM
It doesn"t seem right to me to be forcing selection based on rankings at such an early stage in the season...... personally, I"ve only been able to play one event this season so far (family commitment clashed with the Welsh and will again with the Scottish, and couldn"t afford to go to Austria).... and in the one event I have been able to play I suffered a horrible bad beat exit early on.... but I don"t believe that set of circumstances should make me any less eligible for a place..... yet forcing half of the team"s selection based on rankings would significantly dampen my chances. I"m sure this goes for a whole host of others, and given the huge number of English players, it has an even greater impact on England specifically.
Last season, the team event came toward the end of the season, but even then the rankings weren"t a mandatory consideration.
[I think last year"s rankings should be taken into account though :D ]
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: APAT on May 17, 2010, 22:54:48 PM
Stuart, your points are very valid and we"re certainly willing as always to listen to feedback on this. Ultimately I would want to ensure we can continue to incentivise players to play APAT National events and this is one very good way to do so. We"ll await further feedback before finalising the position.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: MintTrav on May 18, 2010, 02:28:23 AM
I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.
Damn, thought the rankings were going to force me in by default but it looks like the Captain has other ideas...........
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Waz1892 on May 18, 2010, 08:51:19 AM
Stuart, your points are very valid and we"re certainly willing as always to listen to feedback on this. Ultimately I would want to ensure we can continue to incentivise players to play APAT National events and this is one very good way to do so. We"ll await further feedback before finalising the position.
Then could it be set now for S5 that national events and points standing at the end of S4 will dictate some Team positions next year. Everyone knows the score...so you have the incentivisation (its a word!) your looking for, but without closing the door for this years selection, with it being unannouced, and only possible to include the small sample of events so far.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Mikeyboy9361 on May 18, 2010, 09:44:22 AM
Ranking points this year over such a small sample is just a crazy way of awarding points. Have the Poles scored any points at all? What about the Hungarians? Only the home countries I would suggest have enough points scorers to make it viable, and even then is unfair, apart from the fact that Steve has no points so should be axed! ;)
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: ian.ski309 on May 18, 2010, 09:50:53 AM
I strongly agree with with Stuarts point, The ranking points are over such a small sample as to be a meaningless indication of playing ability. Also, the Team Championship format is vastly different to those included in the ranking system and thus calls for a very different and specific player type.
Damn, thought the rankings were going to force me in by default but it looks like the Captain has other ideas...........
You know who the Captain is John.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: fraac on May 18, 2010, 14:22:59 PM
It doesn"t seem right to me to be forcing selection based on rankings at such an early stage in the season......
[I think last year"s rankings should be taken into account though :D ]
I agree with the comment in parenthesis with the grinny face.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: daveyb147 on May 18, 2010, 16:33:16 PM
difficult one this,,,,i see wot you are saying with regard not enough events played for the rankings to be a major factor but on the other hand i dont see how a captain can know the poker abilities of every apat player at their disposal,,,maybe next year if there are not many events played before the team event it should be the previous season rankings that count toward selection,,,,one live nat ranking winner ,,one online ranking winner,,and 2 picks maybe ???
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: TheSnapper on May 18, 2010, 17:00:48 PM
difficult one this,,,,i see wot you are saying with regard not enough events played for the rankings to be a major factor but on the other hand i dont see how a captain can know the poker abilities of every apat player at their disposal,,,maybe next year if there are not many events played before the team event it should be the previous season rankings that count toward selection,,,,one live nat ranking winner ,,one online ranking winner,,and 2 picks maybe ???
Not all teams will have a live and online winner to pick
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: rejmak on May 18, 2010, 19:45:27 PM
Stuart, your points are very valid and we"re certainly willing as always to listen to feedback on this. Ultimately I would want to ensure we can continue to incentivise players to play APAT National events and this is one very good way to do so. We"ll await further feedback before finalising the position.
Then could it be set now for S5 that national events and points standing at the end of S4 will dictate some Team positions next year. Everyone knows the score...so you have the incentivisation (its a word!) your looking for, but without closing the door for this years selection, with it being unannouced, and only possible to include the small sample of events so far.
This would be a good option.
Should we also not consider the online rankings, pro league rankings and National League points. Not all APAT players can play a large number of the National events.
Also, given that the format of the team event includes a fair proportion of HU games should performance in that area not be considered. We now have a HU event on the APAT schedule and strong showing at that may influence a captain.
All things considered I think any proposal to remove the freedom from captains to choose who they think gives their team the best chance of winning is only taking away from the role.
Speaking as a previous non-playing captain, the freedom of choice was the most challenging part of the job but one which IMO needs to remain.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on May 18, 2010, 20:32:26 PM
Stuart, your points are very valid and we"re certainly willing as always to listen to feedback on this. Ultimately I would want to ensure we can continue to incentivise players to play APAT National events and this is one very good way to do so. We"ll await further feedback before finalising the position.
Thanks Des, I see where you are coming from.
I personally think the incentives to play the national events are already there. If you want to increase them would it not be more appropriate to offer positions in the APAT team at the UK Team Championship?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: MintTrav on May 18, 2010, 22:09:14 PM
Also, given that the format of the team event includes a fair proportion of HU games should performance in that area not be considered. We now have a HU event on the APAT schedule and strong showing at that may influence a captain.
That"ll be a neat trick, as this year"s teams are barred from it:
2. Can players in this event enter into the HU and Stud events? No, the events clash
While you"re reconsidering various things, you gotta reconsider this. Apparently, the most prestigious side-event (imo) is off-limits to anyone picked for the national teams. I don"t think there should be a problem with playing both. Most of the team event involves hanging around waiting for your turn. Jumping across for the odd HU shouldn"t present an issue. It may happen that a HU has to wait for a while, but mostly it wouldn"t happen and anyway so what? Knock-on effects would be negligible. So that"s agreed then?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: fraac on May 18, 2010, 22:33:27 PM
Also, given that the format of the team event includes a fair proportion of HU games should performance in that area not be considered. We now have a HU event on the APAT schedule and strong showing at that may influence a captain.
That"ll be a neat trick, as this year"s teams are barred from it:
What I meant John was that someone doing well in the event this year may be considered for next year. Also in future seasons the HU may take place before the team event.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: MintTrav on May 18, 2010, 23:38:09 PM
Looks pretty tight in the points race for places on the Austrian team!
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on May 19, 2010, 10:51:59 AM
Am I right in thinking that myself and Don Roberts, being the top 2 English guys from the current Live rankings, are to be in the English team?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: zzBlizzardzz on May 19, 2010, 11:00:45 AM
Yea. This is what I mean. I mean it"s an APAT event. Why wouldn"t APAT points standings be taken into account?
They can be taken into account without it being a mandatory selection
Does not make sense in the slightest. A rule saying to have certain people in a certain team, but, dont worry, you dont have to if you dont want to, just pick your friends instead...!!
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: APAT on May 19, 2010, 14:08:20 PM
Yea. This is what I mean. I mean it"s an APAT event. Why wouldn"t APAT points standings be taken into account?
They can be taken into account without it being a mandatory selection
Does not make sense in the slightest. A rule saying to have certain people in a certain team, but, dont worry, you dont have to if you dont want to, just pick your friends instead...!!
Nobody has ever picked their friends for this event as far as I"m concerned. And we"re particularly talking about the home countries here where there is a huge number of players to choose from.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on May 19, 2010, 14:18:05 PM
Does not make sense in the slightest. A rule saying to have certain people in a certain team, but, dont worry, you dont have to if you dont want to, just pick your friends instead...!!
Nobody has ever picked their friends for this event as far as I"m concerned. And we"re particularly talking about the home countries here where there is a huge number of players to choose from.
I dont think I had said that any friends in past events had been picked, I was just making a comment having a rule that is not mandatory, could be ignored and friends picked instead.
Cheers Carl.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on May 19, 2010, 14:24:01 PM
One other point I was going to add...
I know the team games for last season were at the end of the season, so if selection of a particular team was made partially based on season results, for that season, then, if this season"s team was selected based on last years results too, then we are surely just gonna have very similar teams as last years team games?
I realise that other coutries teams dont have that problem because they dont have so many players to choose from.
Cheers Carl.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Jon MW on May 19, 2010, 14:25:09 PM
Yea. This is what I mean. I mean it"s an APAT event. Why wouldn"t APAT points standings be taken into account?
They can be taken into account without it being a mandatory selection
Does not make sense in the slightest. A rule saying to have certain people in a certain team, but, dont worry, you dont have to if you dont want to, just pick your friends instead...!!
I meant I thought it should be a factor that they should be taken into account, rather than it be a rule that they were a mandatory selection.
I thought the implication from what other people wrote was that the choice was either the ranking points should make automatic selections - or they should be ignored
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: bigalhx3 on May 19, 2010, 19:47:00 PM
Why are the current champions Poland not defending their crown?
agree
surely Wales, with 2 lasts in 2 team championships, should be relegated to the Africa Euro Zone to make way for the champs
after speaking to the very successful welsh captain he has informed me that they came 7/8 last year ,but i would have no problems with the welsh team being relagated as they was all a bunch of fish
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Dewi_cool on May 19, 2010, 20:01:40 PM
Why are the current champions Poland not defending their crown?
agree
surely Wales, with 2 lasts in 2 team championships, should be relegated to the Africa Euro Zone to make way for the champs
after speaking to the very successful welsh captain he has informed me that they came 7/8 last year ,but i would have no problems with the welsh team being relagated as they was all a bunch of fish
get you facts right before you post, getting the relevant information correct is very important when making a point, otherwise the point is not valid, as in this case.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Mikeyboy9361 on May 19, 2010, 20:22:00 PM
Why are the current champions Poland not defending their crown?
agree
surely Wales, with 2 lasts in 2 team championships, should be relegated to the Africa Euro Zone to make way for the champs
after speaking to the very successful welsh captain he has informed me that they came 7/8 last year ,but i would have no problems with the welsh team being relagated as they was all a bunch of fish
get you facts right before you post, getting the relevant information correct is very important when making a point, otherwise the point is not valid, as in this case.
What the 7/8 or the fact that your all a bunch of fish! ;)
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Dewi_cool on May 19, 2010, 20:38:55 PM
Why are the current champions Poland not defending their crown?
agree
surely Wales, with 2 lasts in 2 team championships, should be relegated to the Africa Euro Zone to make way for the champs
after speaking to the very successful welsh captain he has informed me that they came 7/8 last year ,but i would have no problems with the welsh team being relagated as they was all a bunch of fish
get you facts right before you post, getting the relevant information correct is very important when making a point, otherwise the point is not valid, as in this case.
What the 7/8 or the fact that your all a bunch of fish! ;)
the 7/8 bit the fish part was correct ;D
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: kinboshi on May 20, 2010, 18:18:56 PM
Am I right in thinking that myself and Don Roberts, being the top 2 English guys from the current Live rankings, are to be in the English team?
Not talking about Don here, but your post is a damning argument in favour of the captain to be able to pick four players irrespective of the live rankings.
;)
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: duke3016 on May 20, 2010, 18:20:12 PM
Personally I"d love the England team to pick players who overplay their 34o out of position as I happen to see at the Vic... :"(
I dont know if you were on the table or heard about this hand from someone. But the facts are I was on the big blind of 150 and there was a raise to 450 which was called and then the action was back to me. The pot is now 1125 and I decide to see a flop with my 43 suited clubs actually. Now you may think I have overplayed my hand and you are entitled to your opinion. If I miss the flop I have lost 300 chips and fold to the next bet. As it happens I hit two fours for a set and hit the flush draw on the turn. To be honest I think some people might think the pocket Kings were overplayed, by going all in on a paired board, surely your only getting called by someone with the set. I would never play 43 unless I had some chips invested in the hand and was getting decent value to make a call and see a flop. This hand gave me a great foundation early on in the tournament which helped me make it to an eventual 2nd place, therefore I have no regrets about risking 300 chips to win a pot of 20000 or so which is how it turned out. Now back to the thread, if rules are made at the start of a season then surely it"s not right to change them halfway through, having said that Apat is a democratic organisation and if enough people want change then I am sure their views will be taken on board. Everyone would be honoured to play for their country myself included. I do not put myself up as one of the top two english players but the four places have to be decided somehow. This has been stated as the way that the team is chosen and until a different method is put forward and adopted we are all bound by the current rules.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Nicky Roeg on July 01, 2010, 08:28:38 AM
Team Holland will be present at this year championship. Further details will follow in the next few weeks.
Hope to see you all end of august.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: ForthThistle on July 12, 2010, 13:40:46 PM
Any update on this..
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: zzBlizzardzz on July 14, 2010, 06:38:49 AM
Shogun and Del have applied for Canadian Citizenship. Get in.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Cyntaf on July 14, 2010, 11:13:51 AM
Yes. We have sorted out the couple of outstanding issues that needed addressing prior to an announcement being made, and if everything goes according to plan, then an announcement will be made this evening. That"s assuming Des is able to make this announcement tonight. If not, then it will be soon.
At least the venue and dates are fixed for this one. ;D
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on July 14, 2010, 18:24:11 PM
Yes. We have sorted out the couple of outstanding issues that needed addressing prior to an announcement being made, and if everything goes according to plan, then an announcement will be made this evening. That"s assuming Des is able to make this announcement tonight. If not, then it will be soon.
At least the venue and dates are fixed for this one. ;D
oh no!
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: APAT on July 17, 2010, 00:16:34 AM
I"m delighted to announce that the following members will captain their country at the forthcoming World Amateur Team Championship at DTD.
Northern Ireland - Colin O"Prey (http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=71)
Poland - Marcin Rejmak (http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=712)
Republic of Ireland - Brendan Byrne (http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=4227)
Scotland - Stuart Oliver (http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=65)
Wales - Paul McGuinness (http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=1941)
We expect to announce further competing international teams shortly.
To clarify the policy on team selection for this event. Captains will be able to select any eligible player to represent their country, including themselves if appropriate.
We will be promoting this event to the entire APAT database in the week ahead. Players who are interested in being considered for selection can notify the appropriate Captain by clicking the link above.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Dewi_cool on July 17, 2010, 01:12:32 AM
Llongyfarchiadau Paul a phob lwc xx
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Newportlad on July 17, 2010, 12:14:52 PM
Best of luck Paul
Wales are due some luck in these
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Cyntaf on July 17, 2010, 12:42:23 PM
Diolch yn fawr bachgen.
Congratulations to all the other Apat members who have the captaincy for their respective countries for this coming amateur world championships. I"m sure it is going to be another big hit. We"ll see you all at DTD in August, so best of luck to all, Apat F.T.W. :)
Cheers
Paul Mac
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Hammerite on July 17, 2010, 13:31:33 PM
Very disappointed to see that the previously stated rule regarding the top two from current rankings has been ignored in team selection. :( However I shall apply to the Captain and see how I get on. Whoever gets picked best of luck to team England.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on July 17, 2010, 14:09:36 PM
Very disappointed to see that the previously stated rule regarding the top two from current rankings has been ignored in team selection. :( However I shall apply to the Captain and see how I get on. Whoever gets picked best of luck to team England.
I have to agree with Don here. Both of us were eligible for team selection right now, and a rule change has now removed that eligibility. WELL DONE APAT for sucumbing to pressure and changing the rules.. I will NOT apply to Brian for a place, I will leave it to Brian to choose a team of his own, and if he would like to select me, thats fair enough..
I feel completely let down by APAT. You do all the things required to get into the team only for it to be pulled from under you. I wonder how Jack will also feel about this..!!
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Jon MW on July 17, 2010, 14:15:12 PM
Very disappointed to see that the previously stated rule regarding the top two from current rankings has been ignored in team selection. :( However I shall apply to the Captain and see how I get on. Whoever gets picked best of luck to team England.
I have to agree with Don here. Both of us were eligible for team selection right now, and a rule change has now removed that eligibility. WELL DONE APAT for sucumbing to pressure and changing the rules.. I will NOT apply to Brian for a place, I will leave it to Brian to choose a team of his own, and if he would like to select me, thats fair enough..
I feel completely let down by APAT. You do all the things required to get into the team only for it to be pulled from under you. I wonder how Jack will also feel about this..!!
IMO APAT didn"t "succumb to pressure", to change the rules.
They made what they thought was a sensible decision, people presented their evidence to suggest that it wasn"t as good as it seems (primarily because of the different circumstances in the timing of this year"s team championship compared to the previous season when this rule would have had much more validity) - and as a result of which APAT made an evidence based decision to change it.
If APAT steadfastly refused to consider any feedback into how it could improve the way in which any of the individual events (or the season"s as a whole) were run then it would stagnate and become more and more disconnected and irrelevant to it"s membership. It"s an extremely promising sign that if a decision is made that evidence suggests is "wrong", APAT will fix the mistake rather than ignore it.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on July 17, 2010, 14:24:54 PM
IMO APAT didn"t "succumb to pressure", to change the rules.
They made what they thought was a sensible decision, people presented their evidence to suggest that it wasn"t as good as it seems (primarily because of the different circumstances in the timing of this year"s team championship compared to the previous season when this rule would have had much more validity) - and as a result of which APAT made an evidence based decision to change it.
If APAT steadfastly refused to consider any feedback into how it could improve the way in which any of the individual events (or the season"s as a whole) were run then it would stagnate and become more and more disconnected and irrelevant to it"s membership. It"s an extremely promising sign that if a decision is made that evidence suggests is "wrong", APAT will fix the mistake rather than ignore it.
how about look at it this way...
If the Premier Football League were asked for opinions into the qualification into Europe next season, and at the start of the season they say, first 4 will qualify to be in the Champions League... And then.. Some time 5 weeks before the end of the season, they change the rules and say, we have listened to "opinion" and we are changing it to only the top 2 teams, therefore, unlucky teams in 3rd and 4th place...
Do you think that is acceptable to just change the rules of qualification mid season?
Or... Do you think it would be prudent to wait until the season has finished and apply the new rules to next season?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on July 17, 2010, 14:40:02 PM
IMO APAT didn"t "succumb to pressure", to change the rules.
They made what they thought was a sensible decision, people presented their evidence to suggest that it wasn"t as good as it seems (primarily because of the different circumstances in the timing of this year"s team championship compared to the previous season when this rule would have had much more validity) - and as a result of which APAT made an evidence based decision to change it.
The rules at the start of the season did not include an automatic qualification for the team event. This is one of the reasons I argued to remove the criteria that was later introduced.
Do you honestly think it is fair that I would have to pick a player because they had gotten say 7th place in one event? (note: I haven"t yet checked the rankings, this is just to demonstrate my point). If APAT steadfastly refused to consider any feedback into how it could improve the way in which any of the individual events (or the season"s as a whole) were run then it would stagnate and become more and more disconnected and irrelevant to it"s membership. It"s an extremely promising sign that if a decision is made that evidence suggests is "wrong", APAT will fix the mistake rather than ignore it.
how about look at it this way...
If the Premier Football League were asked for opinions into the qualification into Europe next season, and at the start of the season they say, first 4 will qualify to be in the Champions League... And then.. Some time 5 weeks before the end of the season, they change the rules and say, we have listened to "opinion" and we are changing it to only the top 2 teams, therefore, unlucky teams in 3rd and 4th place...
Do you think that is acceptable to just change the rules of qualification mid season?
Or... Do you think it would be prudent to wait until the season has finished and apply the new rules to next season?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Jon MW on July 17, 2010, 14:43:27 PM
If the Premier Football League were asked for opinions into the qualification into Europe next season, and at the start of the season they say, first 4 will qualify to be in the Champions League... And then.. Some time 5 weeks before the end of the season, they change the rules and say, we have listened to "opinion" and we are changing it to only the top 2 teams, therefore, unlucky teams in 3rd and 4th place...
Do you think that is acceptable to just change the rules of qualification mid season?
Or... Do you think it would be prudent to wait until the season has finished and apply the new rules to next season?
It isn"t a comparable situation though.
Champions League qualification brings with it significant financial gain. Teams can build into their budget the potential gain of qualification and plan accordingly. If the number of teams who qualified were changed this would affect that strategic and tactical planning - i.e. those teams who were in the mix to "just" qualify would no longer have a chance of qualifying and money they might have spent on trying to get into the qualifying spot would now no longer be rewarded by the extra funds that would arise from qualification.
With APAT, the only way it would make a strategic difference would be if someone won or finished highly in one or more of the early championships purely because it would mean they would be an automatic pick for the Team Championships.
I strongly suspect that this isn"t the case. I really don"t think anybody played any differently in the previous championships because this rule was in place.
The effect having this rule, or not having this rule, would be when the teams are picked.
If it was changed after the teams were picked then someone automatically picked could make arrangements - then get dropped, which would clearly be wrong.
Changing the rule before the teams are picked means that nothing in this season has been affected, and hence there is no reason not to change it for this season rather than wait.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Jon MW on July 17, 2010, 14:44:41 PM
Try and fix your quoting skills SirPerceval :D
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on July 17, 2010, 14:50:21 PM
The rules at the start of the season did not include an automatic qualification for the team event. This is one of the reasons I argued to remove the criteria that was later introduced.
I saw the rules for myself..!! They were there..!! Why else would we be arguing the point..!! Why else would APAT have to state that they changed it..!!
Do you honestly think it is fair that I would have to pick a player because they had gotten say 7th place in one event? (note: I haven"t yet checked the rankings, this is just to demonstrate my point).
It is irrelevant whether it is fair or not. If the rules say it is done this way, then changing the rules mid season is more unfair than the rule itself.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on July 17, 2010, 14:54:34 PM
The auto selection was introduced on May 17, 2010, 01:46:18 pm. I do not believe this was the start of the season.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Jon MW on July 17, 2010, 14:59:27 PM
... It is irrelevant whether it is fair or not. If the rules say it is done this way, then changing the rules mid season is more unfair than the rule itself.
As I"ve suggested,imo , nothing has been organised before this rule was decided, nobody has spent any money or played any differently - this rule has no practical effect up to the point that teams were decided - so how is it unfair to change it?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on July 17, 2010, 15:00:38 PM
Champions League qualification brings with it significant financial gain. Teams can build into their budget the potential gain of qualification and plan accordingly. If the number of teams who qualified were changed this would affect that strategic and tactical planning - i.e. those teams who were in the mix to "just" qualify would no longer have a chance of qualifying and money they might have spent on trying to get into the qualifying spot would now no longer be rewarded by the extra funds that would arise from qualification.
I am reading this thinking, what are you on about..!!
With APAT, the only way it would make a strategic difference would be if someone won or finished highly in one or more of the early championships purely because it would mean they would be an automatic pick for the Team Championships.
I strongly suspect that this isn"t the case. I really don"t think anybody played any differently in the previous championships because this rule was in place.
The effect having this rule, or not having this rule, would be when the teams are picked.
If it was changed after the teams were picked then someone automatically picked could make arrangements - then get dropped, which would clearly be wrong.
Changing the rule before the teams are picked means that nothing in this season has been affected, and hence there is no reason not to change it for this season rather than wait.
Are you drunk? You clearly do not understand the point I am making..!!
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on July 17, 2010, 15:02:40 PM
... It is irrelevant whether it is fair or not. If the rules say it is done this way, then changing the rules mid season is more unfair than the rule itself.
As I"ve suggested,imo , nothing has been organised before this rule was decided, nobody has spent any money or played any differently - this rule has no practical effect up to the point that teams were decided - so how is it unfair to change it?
What has money spent got anything to do with my point? please take time and re-read my point..!!
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Jon MW on July 17, 2010, 15:07:47 PM
Champions League qualification brings with it significant financial gain. Teams can build into their budget the potential gain of qualification and plan accordingly. If the number of teams who qualified were changed this would affect that strategic and tactical planning - i.e. those teams who were in the mix to "just" qualify would no longer have a chance of qualifying and money they might have spent on trying to get into the qualifying spot would now no longer be rewarded by the extra funds that would arise from qualification.
I am reading this thinking, what are you on about..!!
With APAT, the only way it would make a strategic difference would be if someone won or finished highly in one or more of the early championships purely because it would mean they would be an automatic pick for the Team Championships.
I strongly suspect that this isn"t the case. I really don"t think anybody played any differently in the previous championships because this rule was in place.
The effect having this rule, or not having this rule, would be when the teams are picked.
If it was changed after the teams were picked then someone automatically picked could make arrangements - then get dropped, which would clearly be wrong.
Changing the rule before the teams are picked means that nothing in this season has been affected, and hence there is no reason not to change it for this season rather than wait.
Are you drunk? You clearly do not understand the point I am making..!!
I really didn"t think it was that complicated.
Football: if a club spends £5,000,000 with the aim of qualifying for a tournament which will increase their revenue by £20,000,000 then changing the qualifying rules has a direct influence on what they would have done if the rules hadn"t been changed mid season (figures made up, cba to look up the real figures)
APAT: if this rule had never been suggested, none of the results of existing tournaments and nobody"s individual plans or expenses would have been any different to what they are now - therefore there is no difference between changing the rule now and never having the rule in the first place.
EDIT: it"s not specifically the money - it"s the fact that there is absolutely no effect whatsoever, on anything that has already taken place
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on July 17, 2010, 15:09:39 PM
I have said enough on this matter now..!!
I mave made my point, I have expressed how I feel. There really isn"t any point me arguing with anyone about this.
Nobody is gonna make me feel any differently about rule changing mid season in any form of sport or activity. ITS JUST NOT DONE..!!!
Formula 1 did it just last week, changed a rule about a Safety Car. So wrong. They should wait until season close.
Best wishes for the eventual team.
Carl.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on July 17, 2010, 15:11:34 PM
... there is no difference between changing the rule now and never having the rule in the first place. ...
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: MintTrav on July 17, 2010, 15:27:50 PM
APAT announced the "top two" rule on 17 May, immediately received a lot of objections as people felt it would be top two from a very limited number of games and then said the same day that members" views would be taken into account. On 19 May they said that the rule was under review. Your claims about the rules being changed part-way through the season are misrepresenting the position and are unwarranted.
Carl, you have been banging on for ages about how you should be entitled to a place on the basis of a single (very good) result. I"m probably not the only who is tired of reading your posts on this, even before today. Just leave it up to the Captain.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: MintTrav on July 17, 2010, 15:35:17 PM
Congrats Brian, Colin, Stuart, Paul & Jean Michel
but most of all super-Captain Brendan XXX
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on July 17, 2010, 15:39:34 PM
APAT announced the "top two" rule on 17 May, immediately received a lot of objections as people felt it would be top two from a very limited number of games and then said the same day that members" views would be taken into account. On 19 May they said that the rule was under review. Your claims about the rules being changed part-way through the season are misrepresenting the position and are unwarranted.
Carl, you have been banging on for ages about how you should be entitled to a place on the basis of a single (very good) result. I"m probably not the only who is tired of reading your posts on this, even before today. Just leave it up to the Captain.
It was my understanding that the top 2 rule was carried over from last years team selections.
John Murray, I have to read your banging on daily but don"t complain about you.!! You are not even part of the team involved but still get involved.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Hammerite on July 17, 2010, 15:48:56 PM
Ok guys the decision has been made which is fine, I did say on my first post on this subject that Apat is a democratic organisation and as such I will abide by the the views of the majority.
I would be lying if I said I was not disappointed and I fully understand Carl"s frustration at the situation. However it is now time to move on and perhaps try and agree a system for next season which is acceptable to the majority so that this situation does not arise again in the future.
Oh and John as much as I respect you both as a player and a gentleman, Carl is entitled to voice his opinion on the forum and I suggest that if you are fed up with him banging on then don"t bother reading this particular thread. After all I am sure that your place on the Irish Team is very secure. ;)
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on July 17, 2010, 16:06:15 PM
APAT announced the "top two" rule on 17 May, immediately received a lot of objections as people felt it would be top two from a very limited number of games and then said the same day that members" views would be taken into account. On 19 May they said that the rule was under review. Your claims about the rules being changed part-way through the season are misrepresenting the position and are unwarranted.
Carl, you have been banging on for ages about how you should be entitled to a place on the basis of a single (very good) result. I"m probably not the only who is tired of reading your posts on this, even before today. Just leave it up to the Captain.
It was my understanding that the top 2 rule was carried over from last years team selections.
John Murray, I have to read your banging on daily but don"t complain about you.!! You are not even part of the team involved but still get involved.
There was no such top 2 rule in previous years
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Jon MW on July 17, 2010, 17:21:10 PM
APAT announced the "top two" rule on 17 May, immediately received a lot of objections as people felt it would be top two from a very limited number of games and then said the same day that members" views would be taken into account. On 19 May they said that the rule was under review. Your claims about the rules being changed part-way through the season are misrepresenting the position and are unwarranted.
Carl, you have been banging on for ages about how you should be entitled to a place on the basis of a single (very good) result. I"m probably not the only who is tired of reading your posts on this, even before today. Just leave it up to the Captain.
It was my understanding that the top 2 rule was carried over from last years team selections.
John Murray, I have to read your banging on daily but don"t complain about you.!! You are not even part of the team involved but still get involved.
There was no such top 2 rule in previous years
Why bring it in and take it out then ?
Last year some people suggested it wasn"t right that the rankings weren"t taken into account when teams were chosen, rather than change the rules mid way through the season APAT kept it as it entirely being down to the captain"s prerogative.
They introduced it this year, and people pointed out that whereas last year the team championships were at the end of the season and so had some kind of "meaning" to them, this year the team championships were mid way through the season and so somebody could be high up in the rankings after having one really good result - and with nations with fewer representatives, someone could be one of the top 2 ranked people of that nation after having only one mediocre result.
So it would have worked last year when we didn"t have it, and doesn"t work this year when we did.
The APAT rankings are a prime piece of evidence for the National Captain"s to base their choices on, so it seems unlikely that current and previous years performances wouldn"t be taken into account. Rather than the rankings being specified as a selection criteria (as they will be used as such anyway) there might in future be some wording along the line of, past and present APAT National Champions will be the first players considered to represent their countries.
Considered - not automatically selected - so if you win an APAT national Championship you are likely to be included in your National team, but if you don"t do well you"re not necessarily going to be picked again. This way APAT performance will be a key criteria, but without binding National Captains to decisions which they might not think are in the best interest of their Country"s Team.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Jon MW on July 17, 2010, 17:21:56 PM
Did you delete your post, or am I being blind?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Hammerite on July 17, 2010, 17:42:25 PM
Jon I did delete it as it seemed a rather superfluous question given the information contained on the previous 7 pages, however I do thank you for your detailed and concise response.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Jon MW on July 17, 2010, 17:55:20 PM
John I did delete it as it seemed a rather superfluous question given the information contained on the previous 7 pages, however I do thank you for your detailed and concise response.
Thanks, I asked about being blind - but really I was more relieved that I wasn"t just going crazy (always more of a concern for me :-\ )
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: APAT on July 17, 2010, 19:43:24 PM
Will the England team be bringing WAGS to Nottingham, as we"re considering introducing Page 3 to the magazine.
Joking aside, team spirit is a very important part of succeeding in this event, so I would suggest a more relaxed approach to debating selection would be sensible.
I trust Brian to make the right decisions in putting the England team together and when several national champions have yet to represent their countries in this event, it is clear that no single result should determine positions. APAT regularly introduce "rules" during a season with full knowledge that they may get debated. We always listen to member opinion but ultimately we make the final decision on where appropriate. The suggestion that we bowed to pressure is wrong. The right decision was made I believe.
With that said, I"d love to see Don and Carl selected. They are both long term and loyal APAT members but as such, both will fully understand how APAT works.
I"d appreciate if we could now move on a little and give the Captain some time to think.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: TheSnapper on July 17, 2010, 19:57:34 PM
Contentious issue this and thankfully so, it shows that we are passionate about the event and keen to participate. I wasn"t in favour of the proposed rule myself and expressed that view early. My position remains, if the desired outcome for a team selection system is to pick the best team! using criteria for qualification from a small sample is meaningless and is not aligned with that desired outcome at all. However I do understand that some individual aspirations have taken a hit and not a trivial hit either.
Reading this thread reminded of this quote.
"To be proven wrong should be celebrated, for it is elevating someone to a new level of understanding"
PS. Murray is in no way a cert and will need to stay on his toes ;D ;D
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: TheSnapper on July 18, 2010, 11:52:23 AM
Oh and John as much as I respect you both as a player and a gentleman, Carl is entitled to voice his opinion on the forum and I suggest that if you are fed up with him banging on then don"t bother reading this particular thread. After all I am sure that your place on the Irish Team is very secure. ;)
In a rankings based selection process I think John may well secure a place in any team ;)
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: PHIL_TC on July 19, 2010, 11:21:32 AM
With that said, I"d love to see Don and Carl selected. They are both long term and loyal APAT members but as such, both will fully understand how APAT works.
+1 hope you both make it
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: CnadnBvr on July 19, 2010, 23:42:30 PM
who are some of the other Canadian players on the forum ?? Does anyone know. Des??
Thanks
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Shogun112 on July 19, 2010, 23:53:41 PM
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Cyntaf on July 26, 2010, 15:53:59 PM
WooHoo!!! Go Canada!!
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Buffenberger on July 28, 2010, 02:40:10 AM
hi Paul , would like to be considered for the Welsh apat team this year please.i made the last 11 of the uk champs , fin second in the pro am in luton and fin 6th last weekend in the world online champs.i also scored in top 4 for cardiff during the league season.anyway enough of my meagre acheivements , would be great to play for Wales if selected.thanks , Dylan Herbert.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: zzBlizzardzz on August 01, 2010, 08:59:28 AM
Can anyone tell me the format for the team event. I know I saw it somewhere on here but for the life of me I can"t find it anywhere.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on August 01, 2010, 09:17:40 AM
You just never mind if its mixed or not, get your butt on a plane and get over here..oh, an a case of Molson Canadian please!!!! For our victory Party..
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on August 02, 2010, 18:16:20 PM
It will be a combination of single table tournaments, heads up tournaments and a Tighty Multi Table Tournament.
Once we finalise team numbers, we"ll confirm structure.
oh ffs! I am now worried.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: BOINGBLITZ on August 03, 2010, 13:43:38 PM
Please supply some blu-tack to keep the cards secure on a sweaty brow for the MTT event !!
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: APAT on August 10, 2010, 20:02:11 PM
APAT; in association with Betfair Poker, are pleased to announce the final list of International Teams that will compete for the World Amateur Team Championship, being played at Dusk Till Dawn as part of the APAT World Championship of Amateur Poker.
The twelve participating countries are as follows:-
Canada
Craig MacInnes - Captain Sean Kachmarski Michael Christison TBA
England
Brian Yates - Captain Charles Mason Paul Haycock Steve Redfern
France
Jean Michel Ballocchi - Captain Samuel Fossat Tristan Rambaud Antoine Dorin
Germany
Andreas Schoenrock Dan Ohlen Robert Wolff Matthias Nowak
Holland
Nicky Roeg - Captain Berney Frankfort Max Kruis Jan Roel Bresser
Italy
Luca Cannella - Captain Andrea Lombardi Marco Lo Cicero Francesco Piardi
Northern Ireland
Colin O"Prey - Captain Martin Rice Gareth Cash Desi Graham
Poland - European Amateur Team Champions 2009
Marcin Rejmak - Captain Michal Pempkowiak Ian Szerlowski Arek Sinkiewicz
Republic Of Ireland
Brendan Byrne - Captain John Murray Frankie Bailie Stephen Byrne
Scotland
Stuart Oliver - Captain Louis Manson Neil McClory Chris Kelly
Spain
Juan de Diego - Captain Laura Cantero Jesus Ubierna Fran Garcia
Wales
Paul MacGuinness - Captain Dan Owston Dylan Herbert Richard Rudling-Smith
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: rejmak on August 10, 2010, 21:03:37 PM
I see we have a members in other team too:)
Canada
Craig MacInnes - Captain Sean Kachmarski Michael Christison TBA
Germany
Andreas Schoenrock Dan Ohlen Robert Wolff Matthias Nowak
Good luck to all teams!
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: BOINGBLITZ on August 10, 2010, 21:07:54 PM
yeahhhhhh......no German females !!
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: rejmak on August 10, 2010, 22:04:12 PM
Personally I"d love the England team to pick players who overplay their 34o out of position as I happen to see at the Vic... :"(
I dont know if you were on the table or heard about this hand from someone. But the facts are I was on the big blind of 150 and there was a raise to 450 which was called and then the action was back to me. The pot is now 1125 and I decide to see a flop with my 43 suited clubs actually. Now you may think I have overplayed my hand and you are entitled to your opinion. If I miss the flop I have lost 300 chips and fold to the next bet. As it happens I hit two fours for a set and hit the flush draw on the turn. To be honest I think some people might think the pocket Kings were overplayed, by going all in on a paired board, surely your only getting called by someone with the set. I would never play 43 unless I had some chips invested in the hand and was getting decent value to make a call and see a flop. This hand gave me a great foundation early on in the tournament which helped me make it to an eventual 2nd place, therefore I have no regrets about risking 300 chips to win a pot of 20000 or so which is how it turned out. Now back to the thread, if rules are made at the start of a season then surely it"s not right to change them halfway through, having said that Apat is a democratic organisation and if enough people want change then I am sure their views will be taken on board. Everyone would be honoured to play for their country myself included. I do not put myself up as one of the top two english players but the four places have to be decided somehow. This has been stated as the way that the team is chosen and until a different method is put forward and adopted we are all bound by the current rules.
The preflop raise was higher than that (900 instead and not 450 because there was another limper actually) but anyway, you forgot to say that you called a 3000 bet on the flop with low pair and back door flush draw which is, in my humble opinion, criminal to say the least.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Marty719 on August 20, 2010, 10:51:24 AM
Surely you want him to call if you have the best hand?!?!?
Anyway....clearly not the thread to be discussing it...
Any confirmed start time for Thursday?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Chipaccrual on August 20, 2010, 14:45:13 PM
Team event. Im getting 10 O"Clock train from London - Im hoping that will get me there on time?
Isn"t that why they make timetables...or am I missing something?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Marty719 on August 20, 2010, 14:50:52 PM
Duno wat time it starts - thus duno wat time is good for me to get there - plus have to check into hotel.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Paulie_D on August 20, 2010, 14:57:35 PM
Kick off is at 14.30 but you should be there well before that to ensure that they have you logged in and/or registered at DTD if you haven"t been there before.
Looks like the trip is around 2 hours so 10am departure from a major London Terminus should be OK
Hotel might not let you check-in before 2pm (a lot don"t) but that will be mentioned in your booking. If your hotel won"t let you check in early, you might be able to leave your bag with them until you can.
Worth checking beforehand.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: MintTrav on August 20, 2010, 14:58:20 PM
Duno wat time it starts - thus duno wat time is good for me to get there - plus have to check into hotel.
On Thursday, DTD will open at 1:30pm. The first round of the team event will start at 2:30pm, and if every other tournament DTD have run is anything to go by, it will start at 2:30pm.
I would suggest that team players will want to be at DTD as close to 1:30pm as possible to collect shirts, check in with their captain, reg with DTD if necessary, buy into the event.
Plus there will be a bit of team order admin and photos to do.
Please don"t leave it as a turn up at 2:30 on the dot, soak in the pre-match atmosphere and make a day of it. ;)
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on August 20, 2010, 15:12:19 PM
Who"s this "Des" guy? only 38 posts? must be a newbie.
Welcome to APAT Des ;D
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Swinebag on August 22, 2010, 05:09:28 AM
Personally I"d love the England team to pick players who overplay their 34o out of position as I happen to see at the Vic... :"(
I dont know if you were on the table or heard about this hand from someone. But the facts are I was on the big blind of 150 and there was a raise to 450 which was called and then the action was back to me. The pot is now 1125 and I decide to see a flop with my 43 suited clubs actually. Now you may think I have overplayed my hand and you are entitled to your opinion. If I miss the flop I have lost 300 chips and fold to the next bet. As it happens I hit two fours for a set and hit the flush draw on the turn. To be honest I think some people might think the pocket Kings were overplayed, by going all in on a paired board, surely your only getting called by someone with the set. I would never play 43 unless I had some chips invested in the hand and was getting decent value to make a call and see a flop. This hand gave me a great foundation early on in the tournament which helped me make it to an eventual 2nd place, therefore I have no regrets about risking 300 chips to win a pot of 20000 or so which is how it turned out. Now back to the thread, if rules are made at the start of a season then surely it"s not right to change them halfway through, having said that Apat is a democratic organisation and if enough people want change then I am sure their views will be taken on board. Everyone would be honoured to play for their country myself included. I do not put myself up as one of the top two english players but the four places have to be decided somehow. This has been stated as the way that the team is chosen and until a different method is put forward and adopted we are all bound by the current rules.
The preflop raise was higher than that (900 instead and not 450 because there was another limper actually) but anyway, you forgot to say that you called a 3000 bet on the flop with low pair and back door flush draw which is, in my humble opinion, criminal to say the least.
perfect float spot IMO - you lost I take it??
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: SirPercival on August 22, 2010, 11:46:30 AM
Where can I find the structure, points system etc for this event?
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Hammerite on August 23, 2010, 21:50:12 PM
Personally I"d love the England team to pick players who overplay their 34o out of position as I happen to see at the Vic... :"(
I dont know if you were on the table or heard about this hand from someone. But the facts are I was on the big blind of 150 and there was a raise to 450 which was called and then the action was back to me. The pot is now 1125 and I decide to see a flop with my 43 suited clubs actually. Now you may think I have overplayed my hand and you are entitled to your opinion. If I miss the flop I have lost 300 chips and fold to the next bet. As it happens I hit two fours for a set and hit the flush draw on the turn. To be honest I think some people might think the pocket Kings were overplayed, by going all in on a paired board, surely your only getting called by someone with the set. I would never play 43 unless I had some chips invested in the hand and was getting decent value to make a call and see a flop. This hand gave me a great foundation early on in the tournament which helped me make it to an eventual 2nd place, therefore I have no regrets about risking 300 chips to win a pot of 20000 or so which is how it turned out. Now back to the thread, if rules are made at the start of a season then surely it"s not right to change them halfway through, having said that Apat is a democratic organisation and if enough people want change then I am sure their views will be taken on board. Everyone would be honoured to play for their country myself included. I do not put myself up as one of the top two english players but the four places have to be decided somehow. This has been stated as the way that the team is chosen and until a different method is put forward and adopted we are all bound by the current rules.
The preflop raise was higher than that (900 instead and not 450 because there was another limper actually) but anyway, you forgot to say that you called a 3000 bet on the flop with low pair and back door flush draw which is, in my humble opinion, criminal to say the least.
I think you were watching/playing a different hand, there were two fours in the flop and another random card which was a club giving me a set and a back door flush draw, that unsurprisingly was why I called the 3000 bet after the flop.
The turn was a club and therefore not a four giving me a set and a flush/full house draw on the river. You pushed all in and I called.
The river was a blank and sadly for you was not a king that is the story. I don"t know at what stage you think I hit my set all I know is your kk was only ever ahead pre flop so in my humble opinion I played the hand quite well actually.
The only thing that was criminal as you put it, is your failure to remember what happened correctly before posting on this forum. And yes Rob he did lose the hand.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: JamieCarra on August 24, 2010, 02:20:31 AM
Personally I"d love the England team to pick players who overplay their 34o out of position as I happen to see at the Vic... :"(
I dont know if you were on the table or heard about this hand from someone. But the facts are I was on the big blind of 150 and there was a raise to 450 which was called and then the action was back to me. The pot is now 1125 and I decide to see a flop with my 43 suited clubs actually. Now you may think I have overplayed my hand and you are entitled to your opinion. If I miss the flop I have lost 300 chips and fold to the next bet. As it happens I hit two fours for a set and hit the flush draw on the turn. To be honest I think some people might think the pocket Kings were overplayed, by going all in on a paired board, surely your only getting called by someone with the set. I would never play 43 unless I had some chips invested in the hand and was getting decent value to make a call and see a flop. This hand gave me a great foundation early on in the tournament which helped me make it to an eventual 2nd place, therefore I have no regrets about risking 300 chips to win a pot of 20000 or so which is how it turned out. Now back to the thread, if rules are made at the start of a season then surely it"s not right to change them halfway through, having said that Apat is a democratic organisation and if enough people want change then I am sure their views will be taken on board. Everyone would be honoured to play for their country myself included. I do not put myself up as one of the top two english players but the four places have to be decided somehow. This has been stated as the way that the team is chosen and until a different method is put forward and adopted we are all bound by the current rules.
The preflop raise was higher than that (900 instead and not 450 because there was another limper actually) but anyway, you forgot to say that you called a 3000 bet on the flop with low pair and back door flush draw which is, in my humble opinion, criminal to say the least.
I think you were watching/playing a different hand, there were two fours in the flop and another random card which was a club giving me a set and a back door flush draw, that unsurprisingly was why I called the 3000 bet after the flop.
The turn was a club and therefore not a four giving me a set and a flush/full house draw on the river. You pushed all in and I called.
The river was a blank and sadly for you was not a king that is the story. I don"t know at what stage you think I hit my set all I know is your kk was only ever ahead pre flop so in my humble opinion I played the hand quite well actually.
The only thing that was criminal as you put it, is your failure to remember what happened correctly before posting on this forum. And yes Rob he did lose the hand.
Yet another example of the case for video replays.
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: deanp27 on August 24, 2010, 13:09:26 PM
lol at bickering over the way a hand was played ages ago
also i think you may have flopped trips, not a set but that"s a technicality
Title: Re: WCOAP World Amateur Team Championship 2010
Post by: Hammerite on August 25, 2010, 09:29:57 AM
I must agree it is quite amusing Dean, and thanks for putting me right about the trips. Oh and JM pure quality mate. ;D