Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: The Healer on August 22, 2010, 20:25:45 PM
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League match tonite, i had 4 players from the same club at my table.
Suspected a bit of collusion.
One player announced , after folding, that he would have connected with the flop.
The game is hard enough, but im afraid that was the last for me in the league games.
Its taking the meaning of teamwork too far.
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One player announced , after folding, that he would have connected with the flop.
I always connect with the flop after folding ;D
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League match tonite, i had 4 players from the same club at my table.
Suspected a bit of collusion.
One player announced , after folding, that he would have connected with the flop.
The game is hard enough, but im afraid that was the last for me in the league games.
Its taking the meaning of teamwork too far.
shame to hear that, I don"t think I have spotted any collusion on the site, team work yes and maybe a bit of soft play, but then team points is what matters.
If you wish to pm me any further detail I can take it up with the relevant team captain if necessary
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Thanks.
But I can see for myself whats happening, and ive made my decision.
Pity really, because ive enjoyed these games.
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Thanks.
But I can see for myself whats happening, and ive made my decision.
Pity really, because ive enjoyed these games.
ok, again sorry to hear that.
As I said, to take action, if you let me know what team that"s fine. I didn"t see it so need that info.
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Thanks.
But I can see for myself whats happening, and ive made my decision.
Pity really, because ive enjoyed these games.
Maybe....but if you"re gonna drop that sticky-bomb on here, you"ll need to back it up.
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Thank you for your opinion Paulie, but I dont need to do anything.
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I am sorry to hear that, unfortunately teamplay strategy does encourage softplay and even in non-team events players will announce their hand (Or in live situations do the "I am chewing a wasp" thing to let everyone know what they folded a completed hand)
My opinion of the games were at first, great to play, but were all about numbers and the sheer numbers of some teams put other teams/players off. (including myself)
I think that APAT should look at something different for next season, the concept was good, but for me it just didnt work, would rather play an individual game or a game based on a more wider area IE England Scotland Ireland Wales Rest of The World, with a handicapping system in place for results
Meh - had my say :)
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Thanks Paul.
Other than the APAT National events, I shall confine myself to the Furness Friendly Game on Mondays.
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Have to agree with Ger/Paulies point on this one.
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I had 4 leeds players on my table last night, and they took it turns to re raise me! As well as the skipper stealing my blinds!! No soft play in Yorkshire!!
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I had 4 leeds players on my table last night, and they took it turns to re raise me! As well as the skipper stealing my blinds!! No soft play in Yorkshire!!
Ah but it was you ::)
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Last night in div 2
I raised :as: qc only to be reraised and put me nearly all in by my nottingham Team captain with ah ks of course i called cos i am a fish and i spiked a queen to knock him out!!! No collusion there!!!
Down to 10 players and on the points bubble. Only 2 of us from Nottingham left. We go to war against each other and both are all in. No soft play or collusion from Nottingham thats for sure!!!
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this is a fundamental flaw of team tournaments where there is a random seat draw.
Obviously stating hands etc in chat-box is huge no-no anyway but it seems that general "soft play" against team mates is ok as long as it doesn"t go over the border of collusion. In this case we should trust players to have enough "poker sense" and sportsmanship not to cross that line. Obviously where there is clear collusion it should be brought to attention of the relevant people running the league with the full facts and evidence.
I apologise to my team (when i play) but i just can"t bring myself to play much different to my normal style, i figure the best thing i can do for my team is play to win the comp, period. Once i get confused over who is on my team, what we should do etc, i lose the plot.
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i think soft play is likely although i am to thick to notice it.
Still soft play is no different than sitting down to play live cash against regulars at say Walsall!!!!
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i mite aswell get my comment on here first b4 any of my team mates do it for me!
i managed to knock two of my teammates out in the weeks leading up to our promotion last season. it wasnt the best scenario and we had monster hands clashing, i got sum deserved stick for it afterwards.
This part is unavoidable wen it happens but the collusion/softplay will always play a role in this format in some form or another.
can we not do a shootout format where each table has one player from each team, play down to last man standing.
all those left from each table form a final table for the points. if team has more than one player at the table then congrats, ur in the points for sure. then jus let them battle it out for the pride and prizepool?
dunno if this is possible online or if the numbers wud work out but jus an idea :|
but shame players give up on the game from things like this :(
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Big hands are going to collide, even when team-mates are involved. But this is a TEAM game (No "I" in T E A M) and you have to accept it as such if you are going to play in it.
If you have 3 or 4 from one team on your table, then you have to try and adopt a different approach than you normally would. Not easy, but it has to be done.
It is a different type of poker and should be accepted as such. It is enjoyed by many and you only have to look and see how many team-mates are railing at midnight on a Sunday night to realise that.
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can we not do a shootout format where each table has one player from each team, play down to last man standing.
all those left from each table form a final table for the points.
I very much doubt that this is possible given the Betfair software.
In addition, the difference in team sizes would also cause problems. One team may have 100 members but all the rest might have only 10...same problem.
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Last night in div 2
I raised :as: qc only to be reraised and put me nearly all in by my nottingham Team captain with ah ks of course i called cos i am a fish and i spiked a queen to knock him out!!! No collusion there!!!
Down to 10 players and on the points bubble. Only 2 of us from Nottingham left. We go to war against each other and both are all in. No soft play or collusion from Nottingham thats for sure!!!
Hell yeah !!
I certainly do not soft-play anyone, just ask some team mates from some live events, ahem......
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In addition, the difference in team sizes would also cause problems. Solent may have 100 members but all the rest might have only 10...same problem.
FYP
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In addition, the difference in team sizes would also cause problems. Solent may have 100 members but all the rest might have only 10...same problem.
FYP
Or only 5 regular players lol
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In my short time playing these games, I"ve seen great team spirit and yes a hefty amount of team-play but isn"t this the whole point. I"ve personally not seen any collusion, i.e. hand discussions during a hand and would be disappointed in my own team-mates if this was carried out.
So far the banter between the different teams has been one of the biggest reasons I keep coming back to play and if my opponents want to use a strategy to get their teams deep, well we"ll just have to counter it as best we can. To me it makes it all the more interesting.
It"s never going to be possible to please everyone, but nearly everyone I speak to who plays these games loves em, so I say keep it as-is! ::)
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The only thing I would change is the way I play. I need to concentrate longer and to realise it is normally the better players who stay into the latter stages of a game so don"t try bluffing as much as in the early stages. Apart from that I have enjoyed the two games I have played for Liverpool even without much success.
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Showdown,
My initial post was not to look for the rules, or the spirit of team games to be changed to please me. I just came across something that didn"t sit well with me. As previous posters have pointed out, I either accept it or not, I have chosen not to, no big deal, just disappointing, as I thoroughly enjoyed representing my area (albeit, sometimes as a lone rep).
I understand that softplay is part of it,as much as i dislike it, but comments in the chat box when the hand isnt finished is a no-no for me. I have experienced it on other sites, but this was the first in an APAT event that I have encountered. It may well have been an isolated incident, but once is enough for me, a bit hasty some may say, but there you go.
I will always play in the APAT events, it just wont be the League games.
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Showdown,
My initial post was not to look for the rules, or the spirit of team games to be changed to please me. I just came across something that didn"t sit well with me. As previous posters have pointed out, I either accept it or not, I have chosen not to, no big deal, just disappointing, as I thoroughly enjoyed representing my area (albeit, sometimes as a lone rep).
I understand that softplay is part of it,as much as i dislike it, but comments in the chat box when the hand isnt finished is a no-no for me. I have experienced it on other sites, but this was the first in an APAT event that I have encountered. It may well have been an isolated incident, but once is enough for me, a bit hasty some may say, but there you go.
I will always play in the APAT events, it just wont be the League games.
I was going to comment previously, but deleted it beforehand, but I would like to say so now. It is a shame that you feel this way after 1 event...In my previous post, I was going to say, is typing in the chat box while the hand is stil in progress really deemed as "collusion".
Bad etiquitte - 100%, but collusion? Really?
Whatever was said, did it change the outset in your opinion..did anyone reply, comment etc?
I wasn"t there, so of course can"t really say, but from the outside, just looks like a bit of bad play, bad etiquitte, and maybe some naitivety?!
Just my 2p"s in the hat.
I hope you re-consider your decision.
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Waz
Can posting in the chatbox while the hand is in play , be considered Open Collusion ?, I dont know, I"ll let others decide.
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Last night in div 2
I raised :as: qc only to be reraised and put me nearly all in by my nottingham Team captain with ah ks of course i called cos i am a fish and i spiked a queen to knock him out!!! No collusion there!!!
Down to 10 players and on the points bubble. Only 2 of us from Nottingham left. We go to war against each other and both are all in. No soft play or collusion from Nottingham thats for sure!!!
Nottingham.........................Have you moved your house?
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Last night in div 2
I raised :as: qc only to be reraised and put me nearly all in by my nottingham Team captain with ah ks of course i called cos i am a fish and i spiked a queen to knock him out!!! No collusion there!!!
Down to 10 players and on the points bubble. Only 2 of us from Nottingham left. We go to war against each other and both are all in. No soft play or collusion from Nottingham thats for sure!!!
Nottingham.........................Have you moved your house?
Hands off - he"s mine!
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Can posting in the chatbox while the hand is in play , be considered Open Collusion ?, I dont know, I"ll let others decide.
Obviously depends what said. After a player shoves, if they say...
1: "who"s on my team then?"
2: "I have the nuts - you should fold"
1 is ok and part of the whole team banter stuff. 2 is collusion and is a no-no
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Waz
Can posting in the chatbox while the hand is in play , be considered Open Collusion ?, I dont know, I"ll let others decide.
I guess so..such as in AMRN quote..
Can posting in the chatbox while the hand is in play , be considered Open Collusion ?, I dont know, I"ll let others decide.
Obviously depends what said. After a player shoves, if they say...
1: "who"s on my team then?"
2: "I have the nuts - you should fold"
1 is ok and part of the whole team banter stuff. 2 is collusion and is a no-no
But in the case in hand..was it? I guess you have already answered that by pointing it out in the first place? so really irrelavant what others think, as you clearly think it was!
Would be good to know some of the details, if not to clear things up (if this is what you want - sorry don"t mean to assume!)..but it could serve as a "case study" to what is regarding as Team Play and Open (or private) collusion.
That said, it could be deemed as one of those " in my opinion" types. Differcult for sure.
But i sincerlely hope you re-think it over.(cold light and all that)..and I hope you do change your mind about not playing more.
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I just wish we has enough players in the Sheffield team that play to be accused of this .LOL :D
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I just wish we has enough players in the Sheffield team that play to be accused of this .LOL :D
I know what you mean - Brighton is the same. We need players :(
Just thought we could amalgamate teams and become Breffield ;D
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I just wish we has enough players in the Sheffield team that play to be accused of this .LOL :D
I know what you mean - Brighton is the same. We need players :(
Just thought we could amalgamate teams and become Breffield ;D
Now there is a once in a lifetime offer 8)
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I just wish we has enough players in the Sheffield team that play to be accused of this .LOL :D
I know what you mean - Brighton is the same. We need players :(
Just thought we could amalgamate teams and become Breffield ;D
Breffield? Not Shighton?
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I just wish we has enough players in the Sheffield team that play to be accused of this .LOL :D
I know what you mean - Brighton is the same. We need players :(
Just thought we could amalgamate teams and become Breffield ;D
Breffield? Not Shighton?
LOL do you know I actually did it that way round to begin with but knew everyone would take the mick !!!
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LOL do you know I actually did it that way round to begin with but knew everyone would take the mick !!!
Hmmm now is that a dig at people of my nationality - where is the number of the race relations ombudsman ;D
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LOL do you know I actually did it that way round to begin with but knew everyone would take the mick !!!
Hmmm now is that a dig at people of my nationality - where is the number of the race relations ombudsman ;D
stirrer ;D
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Last night in div 2
I raised :as: qc only to be reraised and put me nearly all in by my nottingham Team captain with ah ks of course i called cos i am a fish and i spiked a queen to knock him out!!! No collusion there!!!
Down to 10 players and on the points bubble. Only 2 of us from Nottingham left. We go to war against each other and both are all in. No soft play or collusion from Nottingham thats for sure!!!
Nottingham.........................Have you moved your house?
Hands off - he"s mine!
Worcester hasnt got a team!!
Anyway my erstwhile compatriots of the worcestershire...it aint right facebook group wouldnt be too happy if I had teammates from the enemy county
http://www.facebook.com/pages/WorcestershireIt-aint-right/132223043459551
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If stuff is being typed in the chatbox while the hand is still in play by team-mates, then that is different. THAT is cheating.....and I would report those involved to Betfair and APAT and I would hope that if Betfair agree that it was going on, that APAT should ban them from playing.
If they are naive enough to do something so obvious as that, they deserve everything they get.
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Showdown,
My initial post was not to look for the rules, or the spirit of team games to be changed to please me. I just came across something that didn"t sit well with me. As previous posters have pointed out, I either accept it or not, I have chosen not to, no big deal, just disappointing, as I thoroughly enjoyed representing my area (albeit, sometimes as a lone rep).
I understand that softplay is part of it,as much as i dislike it, but comments in the chat box when the hand isnt finished is a no-no for me. I have experienced it on other sites, but this was the first in an APAT event that I have encountered. It may well have been an isolated incident, but once is enough for me, a bit hasty some may say, but there you go.
I will always play in the APAT events, it just wont be the League games.
I too am interested in what actually happened to make you so disheartened.
I was at one time in the game sat with 3 team players on the same table so wracking my brain as to whether I might have said something. I did have a few shandies that night but I am pretty sure I would never announce my hand in chat while the hand was in progress. I did tease a fellow teammate when he raised my bb saying I had AA but that was just messing :-)
You HAVE to expect soft play in a team event, the word TEAM says it all. You want as many members getting to the final table as possible. If I have JJ and raise preflop and then a team member goes allin I am folding...not collusion just common sense coz 1. he probably has a better hand and 2. if he hasnt then my chips stay in the team...tbh I might call someone on another team coz im a fish but does that make it collusion?
I really hope no one is using msn etc...I know it does go on but I hope for a $10 league game no one has stooped that low.
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but I hope for a $10 league game no one has stooped that low.
ooops ;D
EDIT: Joking
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LOL do you know I actually did it that way round to begin with but knew everyone would take the mick !!!
Hmmm now is that a dig at people of my nationality - where is the number of the race relations ombudsman ;D
English ? You were born in England according to information gleaned.
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Last night in div 2
I raised :as: qc only to be reraised and put me nearly all in by my nottingham Team captain with ah ks of course i called cos i am a fish and i spiked a queen to knock him out!!! No collusion there!!!
Down to 10 players and on the points bubble. Only 2 of us from Nottingham left. We go to war against each other and both are all in. No soft play or collusion from Nottingham thats for sure!!!
Nottingham.........................Have you moved your house?
He sensibly joined a decent team...
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but I hope for a $10 league game no one has stooped that low.
ooops ;D
EDIT: Joking
LOL ur a wee rascal
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but I hope for a $10 league game no one has stooped that low.
ooops ;D
EDIT: Joking
LOL ur a wee rascal
How mant pints do I owe you? I am sure it was one of ur scallys that doubled me up :-)
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Last night in div 2
I raised :as: qc only to be reraised and put me nearly all in by my nottingham Team captain with ah ks of course i called cos i am a fish and i spiked a queen to knock him out!!! No collusion there!!!
Down to 10 players and on the points bubble. Only 2 of us from Nottingham left. We go to war against each other and both are all in. No soft play or collusion from Nottingham thats for sure!!!
Nottingham.........................Have you moved your house?
Hands off - he"s mine!
Worcester hasnt got a team!!
Anyway my erstwhile compatriots of the worcestershire...it aint right facebook group wouldnt be too happy if I had teammates from the enemy county
http://www.facebook.com/pages/WorcestershireIt-aint-right/132223043459551
The AA route planner has given the following information
Bidford to Birmingham 26.0 miles travelling time- 0.44 mins
Bidford to Nottingham 74.1 miles travelling time 1.38 hrs
I rest my case, unless you are getting appearance money
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If stuff is being typed in the chatbox while the hand is still in play by team-mates, then that is different. THAT is cheating.....and I would report those involved to Betfair and APAT and I would hope that if Betfair agree that it was going on, that APAT should ban them from playing.
If they are naive enough to do something so obvious as that, they deserve everything they get.
Depends on what type of "stuff" really and that hasn"t been made clear in the ambiguous OP.
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One player announced , after folding, that he would have connected with the flop.
This...for what it"s worth...isn"t collusion (unless the team players were somehow sharing hand information which has not been suggested)...heck, it"s not even soft-play.
It"s purely bad etiquette to announce that you would have connected with the flop but then at least all players (reading the chatbox) have access to the same information.
As I mentioned before, I think OP mis-spoke and meant soft/team-play rather than collusion and I"ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
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One player announced , after folding, that he would have connected with the flop.
This...for what it"s worth...isn"t collusion (unless the team players were somehow sharing hand information which has not been suggested)...heck, it"s not even soft-play.
It"s purely bad etiquette to announce that you would have connected with the flop but then at least all players (reading the chatbox) have access to the same information.
As I mentioned before, I think OP mis-spoke and meant soft/team-play rather than collusion and I"ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
I concur - very bad ettiquette
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LOL do you know I actually did it that way round to begin with but knew everyone would take the mick !!!
Hmmm now is that a dig at people of my nationality - where is the number of the race relations ombudsman ;D
English ? You were born in England according to information gleaned.
I have a son who was born in Germany and another born in Ireland, I can assure you they are both very much Scottish.
Many people work and live in another country and have children born there, doesn"t make them of that nationality.
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agreed geo , i was born in germany ,brother in Northern ireland ,and we very much scottish .