Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: pokerpops on September 06, 2010, 14:48:14 PM
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25p/50p Cash game at Casino.
10 handed - it seems I"m the stranger in the game, most of the rest of the table seem to know each other , and the dealers.
I"m UTG but have straddled to £1.
UTG +2 (playing c£150) raises to £3 which is called to his immediate left (c£35) and by the BB (c£80) - I call (c£130)with jh 8h (another leak, but the action stops with me and it"s £2 into a pot of £10.25)
UTG has raised infrequently and generally from position and when called to the end showed up with KQ or better
Shortie - has called a lot and folded a lot
BB seems the danger man - LAG style, straddles and then virtually auto-raises - solid c-bets, he"s just announced that he"s recovered from losses he suffered earlier and is £3 up on the day - lol.
Flop is ad th 7h
BB checks
Orig raiser bets £9 - out of turn claiming not to be able to see my cards... unlikely somehow, he seems to be pretty switched on and a regular
I check
the £9 goes in
Shortie shoves his £30ish in
BB raises to £75
while I"m contemplating which of my outs are good - ie, the straight is almost certainly good, but the flush may not be, the original raiser shoves his money in out of turn again...
thoughts to here???
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UTG has raised infrequently and generally from position and when called to the end showed up with KQ or better
I"m assuming that this is meant to be UTG+2 and not yourself?
Oh...and just dump it...you"re only in for £3.
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Not a decision in my book, insta fold.
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Not a decision in my book, insta fold.
I was going to wait for a few more "easy fold" posts before posting this,
I folded, and maybe it is hindsight that makes me wonder, but...
Original raiser has :as: kc (no heart), shortie has td ts (no heart) and BB has tc 7d (no heart)
This leaves me with 12 hand winning outs any heart plus any of 9d 9c 9s...
£130ish to win c£275 (Orig raiser doubles me up plus the stacks from the other two) 2:1 on a 6:4 chance???
Before anyone accuses me of folder"s regrets, I"d have lost had I called, but it doesn"t stop me wondering
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This leaves me with 12 hand winning outs any heart plus any of 9d 9c 9s...
Sorry to nitpick..11 outs.. ah is no good for you.
Oh..and
£130ish to win c£275 (Orig raiser doubles me up plus the stacks from the other two) 2:1 on a 6:4 chance???
Not the right odds to call for a flush....I think.
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keep working on how u read and interpret player styles and there actions post flop David , with a different description of the original raiser i would of said call , your reads on the other two were pretty spot on..
had u seen or can u remember anything that might suggest your read on the original raiser would over value top pair?
[your broad description that u have seen KQ or better by the river isn"t much to go by in terms of fitting the info to put him on a range]
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Just to add - it doesnt matter what their actual hands are - just what ranges they have in this spot. Id fold and be pretty happy about it most of the time.
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this is a pokerstove moment but without nut draws it is probably a fold, because once you chuck a higher flush draw into one of their holdings you are goosed
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This leaves me with 12 hand winning outs any heart plus any of 9d 9c 9s...
Sorry to nitpick..11 outs.. ah is no good for you.
Oh..and
£130ish to win c£275 (Orig raiser doubles me up plus the stacks from the other two) 2:1 on a 6:4 chance???
Not the right odds to call for a flush....I think.
ah is good enough to win the side pot :-)
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If you had 8h 9h then I"d call.
Nothing up with your call pre-flop, not a leak in my book.
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If you had 8h 9h then I"d call.
Nothing up with your call pre-flop, not a leak in my book.
have you not got anything better to do with your time right now Daniel?
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If you had 8h 9h then I"d call.
Nothing up with your call pre-flop, not a leak in my book.
have you not got anything better to do with your time right now Daniel?
I"d suggest that Kinboshi used his time to better effect than you...
Thanks for the input folks - I folded and obviously the absence of a heart or a nine on turn and river made that the "right" decision, but I wondered if there was a case for calling. Hindsight suggests it"s just about there for a call (I"m 40% to win the whole pot and 45% to win the second - bigger - pot) but...
Ultimately it comes down to the ranges for the other three players - the shortstack"s shove screamed set of 10s or 7s, BB was my major consideration - I couldn"t be sure if he had the other set or a draw or the two pair he showed up with.
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Got to fold imo.
Also give red card to raiser for out of turn play (TWICE!!)
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I"d call, but I"m a great big cash game fish
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As a side......to those who fold...what do you do w/ KQhh in this spot?
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i"d be calling pretty quick with the nut draws
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As an aside......to those who fold...what do you do w/ Kh Qh in this spot?
I don"t think there is any doubt we"re not even close to being 1st or 2nd here and we don"t know if our flush draw is even going to be good.
Still an easy fold for a lousy £3.
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i"d be calling pretty quick with the nut draws
Nut flush draw I assume you mean...which we don"t have....and if we can be confident that we are up against a set...we"re still not necessarily good anyway.
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Yea KQhh doesn"t = J8hh as there are less dominating draws but AXhh still has to be a major part of the range we r worried about. Marginally closer and I prob insta thoughtless put it in irl but still meant to b a fold IMO.
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sorry i thought the Ah was on board, ignore me
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for me its a marginal situation , its a break even situation/small +ev in the long term and a call or a fold are correct , all depends on your bankroll and how u handle/personally react to high variance etc etc..
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5205/apatstove.jpg) (http://img833.imageshack.us/i/apatstove.jpg/)
this is with one of the villains [the bigger stacks] having a better flush draw in there range [put it in lag"s]...
being up against sets and 2pairs is the best scenario equity wise as we would have around 38% , so depending i guess on how u would weigh there hand ranges , in the lag"s case i"d guesstimate at least 50% of the time him holding 2pair hands AT A7 T7..