Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: LongshanksED on October 25, 2010, 11:47:46 AM
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Personally Im happy the way I played it just not the outcome
Local pub league regional final. 10k starting stack, 130 runners, 90 left, top 10 paid (£500 for first from £10 buy in), top 12 get seat to national freeroll final with around £2.5k for first in a months time
after building up to 32k, top 10 in chips, this happens
Blinds 200/400 (no ante)
I"ve been opening-3 betting lots of speculative hands in position. Mostly against very bad players but rarely get to showdown. When it has I"ve always had a big hand like top 2 pair, set/trips or better and managed to do move like
Check raises all in etc
I"m in sb with ace 10 diamonds and a very tight player opens to 800 he has about 25k and is only one at table that can damage my stack effectively as everyone else has less than 8-10k.
Folds to me and I don"t like raising or folding this deep in chips so I call (1st mistake?)
Flop q j 7 with q and 7 diamonds
Ive already decides to check raise with my gunshot and flush draws (?)
I check and opponent over bets 4k into the pot. He"s done this alot with single pair and I auto shove all in thinking he has enough fold equity (?)
Villian tanks for a good minute at least and calls with kj but says "you have a set right?, that"s how you"ve played them before?" and I turn over my drawing hand and miss everything.
Thought? Had I won that i was clear chip leader of the tourney!
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I think you have already answered your own questions.
1....Dont like the call,
2....Think there must be a mis-type because there is no kd, on the flop
3....How come you have already decided what action to take before he bets, given that you had already stated that he was a tight player!
4....You might have been chip leader , IF you had won the hand, but I fear your first action in point 1, has led to your downfall
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Sorry it was a mistype. Qd and 7d on flop.
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standard fold pre - would you call OOP if they were unsuited?
postflop i would also do a CRAI but pre is pretty bad imo
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very tight opponent + oop + marginal hand + only player who can hurt you = really easy fold pre
fold>3bet>call
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Guess he wasn"t such a tight player after all!
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Guess he wasn"t such a tight player after all!
If he was on the button, then there"s nothing wrong with raising with that hand if it"s folded round to him - even for a tight player. He has position, a hand he knows where he is (especially on that flop) and he"s also aware the damage he can do with his stack.
Sure, but he"s also bet 4k into a 2k pot and called an all-in for 20k extra with middle pair when he suspects we have a set.
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Guess he wasn"t such a tight player after all!
If he was on the button, then there"s nothing wrong with raising with that hand if it"s folded round to him - even for a tight player. He has position, a hand he knows where he is (especially on that flop) and he"s also aware the damage he can do with his stack.
Sure, but he"s also bet 4k into a 2k pot and called an all-in for 20k extra with middle pair when he suspects we have a set.
Of course, that suggests he"s anything but a tight player. But we didn"t know that until the showdown from what the OP told us. His pre-flop play still fits the profile of a tight player - his post-flop play is obviously terrible if he has second pair and thinks his opponent has him beaten and then calls his stack off for another 20K!
I actually thought there was a mistake in the OP and the other player had flopped two pair, but I see that whatever the mistake was has now been corrected.
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as soon as you have pegged him as a very tight player who happens to have the only stack at the table that can hurt you, why on earth do you want to get involved with a marginal raggy ace?
Insta-fold preflop!
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Where are you when the flop comes Axx? Winning against a big pair or crushed by AK/AQ?
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as soon as you have pegged him as a very tight player who happens to have the only stack at the table that can hurt you, why on earth do you want to get involved with a marginal raggy ace?
Insta-fold preflop!
To give you the opportunity to stack him, an opportunity that is less likely with a loose player.
but that"s only going to happen on a perfect flop - so you"re advocating calling with ATdd to try and hit a flush or straight, or some weird 2pair or trips hand...... surely a better hand to do that with would be something like 56s.... this hand is in danger of hitting the flop sideways and costing you a bunch of chips
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I def think 3b is way better than flat kin. Firstly, we can win the pot there and then. If we get 4bet we have a very easy lay down. If we get flatted then at least we have the betting lead so will win on most flops. It saves us calling off in dominated spots.
I cant see many pro"s to flatting, while 3b"n gives us a chance at winning the pot. How strong does our hand look 3b"n a "very tight player" from the sb!
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Where are you when the flop comes Axx? Winning against a big pair or crushed by AK/AQ?
The very tight player will play his hand face up. If he"s uber-tight, is he going to be raising from EP with AQ?
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as soon as you have pegged him as a very tight player who happens to have the only stack at the table that can hurt you, why on earth do you want to get involved with a marginal raggy ace?
Insta-fold preflop!
To give you the opportunity to stack him, an opportunity that is less likely with a loose player.
but that"s only going to happen on a perfect flop - so you"re advocating calling with ATdd to try and hit a flush or straight, or some weird 2pair or trips hand...... surely a better hand to do that with would be something like 56s.... this hand is in danger of hitting the flop sideways and costing you a bunch of chips
Hit the flop "sideways" and you don"t lose a bunch of chips. You don"t fall in love with the hand if you hit top pair.
With 56s I probably play it the same way as ATs.
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as soon as you have pegged him as a very tight player who happens to have the only stack at the table that can hurt you, why on earth do you want to get involved with a marginal raggy ace?
Insta-fold preflop!
To give you the opportunity to stack him, an opportunity that is less likely with a loose player.
but that"s only going to happen on a perfect flop - so you"re advocating calling with ATdd to try and hit a flush or straight, or some weird 2pair or trips hand...... surely a better hand to do that with would be something like 56s.... this hand is in danger of hitting the flop sideways and costing you a bunch of chips
Hit the flop "sideways" and you don"t lose a bunch of chips. You don"t fall in love with the hand if you hit top pair.
With 56s I probably play it the same way as ATs.
with 56s ur hand is less likely to be dominated, and we are not going broke w/ 1 pair.
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I def think 3b is way better than flat kin. Firstly, we can win the pot there and then. If we get 4bet we have a very easy lay down. If we get flatted then at least we have the betting lead so will win on most flops. It saves us calling off in dominated spots.
The caveat to my post was the the player is indeed tight, and is opening from EP. If that"s the case, what do you put him on? What percentage of the time is he going to 4-bet us? I think it"s too high.
If he calls, you want to be leading out on missed flop? He raised to 800 - what you planning on 3-betting to? He then calls and you have to put in fairish bet on the flop if you"re going to lead out. Too spewy by far for me.
I cant see many pro"s to flatting, while 3b"n gives us a chance at winning the pot. How strong does our hand look 3b"n a "very tight player" from the sb!
We can win the pot there an then with ATC, assuming he doesn"t have a monster hand. However, like I said - if we"re assuming he"s a very tight player and has opened from EP then it"s fair to assume he does indeed have a monster hand.
I don"t want to risk a fairly large chunk of chips trying to take down a relatively small pot when for far fewer chips I get a chance to take a lot of chips from a well-stacked player who will be playing his hand pretty much face up post flop.
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as soon as you have pegged him as a very tight player who happens to have the only stack at the table that can hurt you, why on earth do you want to get involved with a marginal raggy ace?
Insta-fold preflop!
To give you the opportunity to stack him, an opportunity that is less likely with a loose player.
but that"s only going to happen on a perfect flop - so you"re advocating calling with ATdd to try and hit a flush or straight, or some weird 2pair or trips hand...... surely a better hand to do that with would be something like 56s.... this hand is in danger of hitting the flop sideways and costing you a bunch of chips
Hit the flop "sideways" and you don"t lose a bunch of chips. You don"t fall in love with the hand if you hit top pair.
With 56s I probably play it the same way as ATs.
with 56s ur hand is less likely to be dominated, and we are not going broke w/ 1 pair.
Yes, if you"re going to go broke with one pair here - deffo fold.
Oh, and please play on my table.
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any time sir...literally any time!
my 3b size tends to be 1900 if he makes it 800. That also controls our cbet size. What do u think his 4bet range is? What do you think his opening range? If you think both are similar then why do you ever think flatting>>folding??? I think a lot of people can be camped in the, "my cards look nice so I will call and see what happens with no real plans" camp.
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Marty, Gareth & Steve, are you guys seriously folding ATs, 60 bb"s deep, to a preflop minraise?
I def think 3b is way better than flat kin. Firstly, we can win the pot there and then. If we get 4bet we have a very easy lay down. If we get flatted then at least we have the betting lead so will win on most flops. It saves us calling off in dominated spots.
I cant see many pro"s to flatting, while 3b"n gives us a chance at winning the pot. How strong does our hand look 3b"n a "very tight player" from the sb!
Kinboshi has asked previously and I don"t see an answer to the question but, the raisers position is uber important. I especially think the 3bet option is heavily dependent on the raisers position. We should also know and take into account the villains tendancies, is he positionally aware? is the min raise his standard PF betsize? If not, has he min bet before and with what?
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Marty, Gareth & Steve, are you guys seriously folding ATs, 60 bb"s deep, to a preflop minraise?
Cnt speak for the others but I"m pretty much 3bn or folding my entire range from the sb.
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Marty, Gareth & Steve, are you guys seriously folding ATs, 60 bb"s deep, to a preflop minraise?
Against a player who has been read as super tight, couple with my being out of position, yes I might fold ATs preflop. But there are a number of other factors that would contribute to the making of that decision..... the guy"s position at the table, the BB"s tendencies, etc. But I doubt I would ever flat with ATs in this spot - 3b or fold..... but if I 3b, I"m always folding to a 4b here.
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My point was that he may not play his cards "face up" post flop and we may not be able to play "perfect poker" as kinboshi suggested.
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Marty, Gareth & Steve, are you guys seriously folding ATs, 60 bb"s deep, to a preflop minraise?
Against a player who has been read as super tight, couple with my being out of position, yes I might fold ATs preflop. But there are a number of other factors that would contribute to the making of that decision..... the guy"s position at the table, the BB"s tendencies, etc. But I doubt I would ever flat with ATs in this spot - 3b or fold..... but if I 3b, I"m always folding to a 4b here.
We haven"t established the guy"s position or tendancies so can"t really assign a range of hands to him, can we make a good decision without this info?
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Marty, Gareth & Steve, are you guys seriously folding ATs, 60 bb"s deep, to a preflop minraise?
Against a player who has been read as super tight, couple with my being out of position, yes I might fold ATs preflop. But there are a number of other factors that would contribute to the making of that decision..... the guy"s position at the table, the BB"s tendencies, etc. But I doubt I would ever flat with ATs in this spot - 3b or fold..... but if I 3b, I"m always folding to a 4b here.
We haven"t established the guy"s position or tendancies so can"t really assign a range of hands to him, can we make a good decision without this info?
clearly not, but to answer your original question, yes seriously, I may fold here :D
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clearly not, but to answer your original question, yes seriously, I may fold here :D
"I may fold" is reasonable, at the very least it does suggest a viable alternative.
as soon as you have pegged him as a very tight player who happens to have the only stack at the table that can hurt you, why on earth do you want to get involved with a marginal raggy ace?
Insta-fold preflop!
"Insta-fold preflop!", on the other hand....... :D
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clearly not, but to answer your original question, yes seriously, I may fold here :D
"I may fold" is reasonable, at the very least it does suggest a viable alternative.
as soon as you have pegged him as a very tight player who happens to have the only stack at the table that can hurt you, why on earth do you want to get involved with a marginal raggy ace?
Insta-fold preflop!
"Insta-fold preflop!", on the other hand....... :D
yeah yeah yeah, picky bugger :D
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Still need convincing that re-raising against a very tight player raising in this situation from EP is the optimum play.
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I don"t think anyone said that. They said it was better than calling.
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This is pub poker, i am really not surprised that he turns up with KJ.
As it is, in that position i re raise here and take it from there.
Just cause i likes raising.
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If he is raising from an EP and is uber-tight, what range do you put him on? What is the likelihood that he"ll 4-bet (based on this range we ascribe to him)? What will we do if he 4-bets? What percentage of the time does he need to fold to our 3-bet in order to make it a profitable play? If he flat calls, what does that say about his range? On a dry board (not the actual one in the OP) how often do you lead out? What do you do when he re-raises? What about if he flat calls?
Yea I def do not think 3b is optimal. I just think it is better than flatting. If he raises from EP, I"d say an uber tight player usually has 99+, AQs+. A10dd only has 33% against this range, and the fact that we are oop makes this an even easier fold. If it is from later position, it prob changes to 77+, A10s+ AJo+, KQs. Even against this we only have 36% and are oop so a fold is still good, but if we 3b, we can assume he 4b"s QQ+ AKo, flats 1010-JJ+AQs, and folds the rest. We win a decent % of the time against his flatting range by c/betting (our hand looks super strong 3b"n a rock oop).
Even if we widen his range, it really doesnt change an uber tight players 4b range, and with the betting lead, we do well against all the rest of his range. By flatting, I do not really see how we possibly do well against any of his range. The c/bet has pretty much become compulsory, and is pretty hard for us to defend against vs this type of player. We also do not feel comfortable when we hit the flop. If we were on the button, flatting becomes more viable, but oop our hand is a nightmare to play.
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If he is raising from an EP and is uber-tight, what range do you put him on? What is the likelihood that he"ll 4-bet (based on this range we ascribe to him)? What will we do if he 4-bets? What percentage of the time does he need to fold to our 3-bet in order to make it a profitable play? If he flat calls, what does that say about his range? On a dry board (not the actual one in the OP) how often do you lead out? What do you do when he re-raises? What about if he flat calls?
Yea I def do not think 3b is optimal. I just think it is better than flatting. If he raises from EP, I"d say an uber tight player usually has 99+, AQs+. A10dd only has 33% against this range, and the fact that we are oop makes this an even easier fold. If it is from later position, it prob changes to 77+, A10s+ AJo+, KQs. Even against this we only have 36% and are oop so a fold is still good, but if we 3b, we can assume he 4b"s QQ+ AKo, flats 1010-JJ+AQs, and folds the rest. We win a decent % of the time against his flatting range by c/betting (our hand looks super strong 3b"n a rock oop).
Even if we widen his range, it really doesnt change an uber tight players 4b range, and with the betting lead, we do well against all the rest of his range. By flatting, I do not really see how we possibly do well against any of his range. The c/bet has pretty much become compulsory, and is pretty hard for us to defend against vs this type of player. We also do not feel comfortable when we hit the flop. If we were on the button, flatting becomes more viable, but oop our hand is a nightmare to play.
Nice post, Puts the case for 3 betting very well.
Have we established yet in this thread, what is raisers position? ??? ???
Assuming its a LP raise and his range is 77+, A10s+ AJo+, KQs....
What are reasonable ranges for calling and 3 betting?
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I really do not have a flatting range from the SB here. If we were IP then I peel a lot lighter, but I cnt see any advantages to flatting s/c"s against this kind of player. I guess we can set-mine 22-77, but again I would rather 3b for the reasons mentioned above.
Our 3b range for value against hs opening range should prob be 1010+ AQo+. This has around 57% against villains range, so we can actually widen this profitably, but seems good as a default against this player type.
The rest of our 3b range is more speculative, and pretty undefined imo. Its filled with hands that we are just trying to pick up a small pot with.
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I really do not have a flatting range from the SB here. If we were IP then I peel a lot lighter, but I cnt see any advantages to flatting s/c"s against this kind of player. I guess we can set-mine 22-77, but again I would rather 3b for the reasons mentioned above.
Our 3b range for value against hs opening range should prob be 1010+ AQo+. This has around 57% against villains range, so we can actually widen this profitably, but seems good as a default against this player type.
The rest of our 3b range is more speculative, and pretty undefined imo. Its filled with hands that we are just trying to pick up a small pot with.
Really curious about the 3bet bluff option, If your range is undefined.....
How do you decide if or when you"re gonna be 3 bet bluffing and how do you keep tabs on your frequencies.
Game theorists suggest upto 1:1 value to bluff ratio in balanced 3 betting ranges, your example of 1010+ AQo+ for value is top 4.5% so assuming we don"t have a calling range ( thats a debate all of its own but you make some valid points) we should have a total 3bet range of top 9% = 88+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,AJo+,KQo
1010+ AQo+ for value
88,99,ATs,AJs,KQs,AJo as a bluff
usually you would also have a calling range, splitting those two set of ranges and using hands not quite good enough to call with as your bluff range, so total range would look like......
top 4.5% 3 bet for value = 1010+ AQo+
4.6%-9% Call = 88,99,ATs,AJs,KQs,AJo
(not suggesting we call with this range here and its likely a smaller "value:call:Bluff" ratio applies but doubt very much if its 0 for calling, these ranges would of course have to adjust based on effective stack size too.)
9.1%-13.5% 3 bet bluff = 77,A8s,A9s,K9s-KJs,QTs,JTs,ATo,KJo,KQo
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If he is raising from an EP and is uber-tight, what range do you put him on? What is the likelihood that he"ll 4-bet (based on this range we ascribe to him)? What will we do if he 4-bets? What percentage of the time does he need to fold to our 3-bet in order to make it a profitable play? If he flat calls, what does that say about his range? On a dry board (not the actual one in the OP) how often do you lead out? What do you do when he re-raises? What about if he flat calls?
Yea I def do not think 3b is optimal. I just think it is better than flatting. If he raises from EP, I"d say an uber tight player usually has 99+, AQs+. A10dd only has 33% against this range, and the fact that we are oop makes this an even easier fold. If it is from later position, it prob changes to 77+, A10s+ AJo+, KQs. Even against this we only have 36% and are oop so a fold is still good, but if we 3b, we can assume he 4b"s QQ+ AKo, flats 1010-JJ+AQs, and folds the rest. We win a decent % of the time against his flatting range by c/betting (our hand looks super strong 3b"n a rock oop).
Even if we widen his range, it really doesnt change an uber tight players 4b range, and with the betting lead, we do well against all the rest of his range. By flatting, I do not really see how we possibly do well against any of his range. The c/bet has pretty much become compulsory, and is pretty hard for us to defend against vs this type of player. We also do not feel comfortable when we hit the flop. If we were on the button, flatting becomes more viable, but oop our hand is a nightmare to play.
Nice post, Puts the case for 3 betting very well.
Have we established yet in this thread, what is raisers position? ??? ???
Assuming its a LP raise and his range is 77+, A10s+ AJo+, KQs....
What are reasonable ranges for calling and 3 betting?
I only call here if it"s an uber-tight player raising from EP. Otherwise it"s either a fold or a 3-bet bluff (raise to a fold and planning to let go of the hand post-flop unless it smacks me hard in the face).
I do the same with 56 in my hand.
Out of interest, what does everyone do if you hold TT against the uber-tight player raising from EP in this situation?
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Out of interest, what does everyone do if you hold TT against the uber-tight player raising from EP in this situation?
I call and stack him if I set up check fold otherwise.
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"I only call here if it"s an uber-tight player raising from EP."
This quote is very interesting for me. Given that he is a tight player raising from ep and we are oop for the whole hand, what makes calling>folding?? Edit: reread whole thread...is the reason we might make a flush or straight and stack him?!?!?!?!?!
With 10"s I prob 3b fold against this player vs the ranges listed above. If we view him as super tight and think his 4b range is QQ+ AK. 10"S only have 36% against this range.
Only reason I don"t want to flat and set-mine is I do not want to c/f all non-10 boards. Then again, I would rather flat 10"s than A10 suited as the reverse implied odds are not as bad, and they are probably easier to play from the flop onwards. Think its still a 3b for most of the same reasons tho.
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If he is raising from an EP and is uber-tight, what range do you put him on? What is the likelihood that he"ll 4-bet (based on this range we ascribe to him)? What will we do if he 4-bets? What percentage of the time does he need to fold to our 3-bet in order to make it a profitable play? If he flat calls, what does that say about his range? On a dry board (not the actual one in the OP) how often do you lead out? What do you do when he re-raises? What about if he flat calls?
Yea I def do not think 3b is optimal. I just think it is better than flatting. If he raises from EP, I"d say an uber tight player usually has 99+, AQs+. A10dd only has 33% against this range, and the fact that we are oop makes this an even easier fold. If it is from later position, it prob changes to 77+, A10s+ AJo+, KQs. Even against this we only have 36% and are oop so a fold is still good, but if we 3b, we can assume he 4b"s QQ+ AKo, flats 1010-JJ+AQs, and folds the rest. We win a decent % of the time against his flatting range by c/betting (our hand looks super strong 3b"n a rock oop).
Even if we widen his range, it really doesnt change an uber tight players 4b range, and with the betting lead, we do well against all the rest of his range. By flatting, I do not really see how we possibly do well against any of his range. The c/bet has pretty much become compulsory, and is pretty hard for us to defend against vs this type of player. We also do not feel comfortable when we hit the flop. If we were on the button, flatting becomes more viable, but oop our hand is a nightmare to play.
Still need convincing that re-raising against a very tight player raising in this situation from EP is the optimum play.
going by martys uber range then villain has 45 combos of which 27 4bet [maybe flat a % of the time] 12 flat call and if villain can fold 99 then 6 combos fold , so with that range in a maths sense then 3betting is not +ev..
But considering how deep shanks is then risking 1700 chips to raise to 1900 [only about 3.5 to 4% of his stack] plus a cbet if called/needed is not a huge error imho , not if you take into consideration future play , say we fold to a 4bet and later on we pick up AA and face a similar situation then getting value is impacted by our previous play.. So although the maths say its not +ev it is +ev in the future imo..
as to calling then with 43/44 to 1 implied odds why not make a call with ATC"s? we"ll flop 2pair or trips about 3.3% of the time and if villain cannot fold an overpair [this is pub poker] then calling is not to bad imho..
folding is zero ev so its not a mistake to fold...
all on villains range but i"d suspect it to be wider than 99+ AQs+ due to his his stack size, maybe not miles wider but given how deep we are then a call or a smallish 3bet is more preferred to folding for me, as long as we are disciplined enough to fold a pair of aces or tens if villains gets jiggy...
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3b folding w/ 10"s def sucks, but i just dnt wana gt trapped into gng call/call/call, and 3b call is awful.
Uber tight players are def exploitable, but so are people who play mediocre hands oop.
U know u rnt going to get "the perfect flop" enough to make it profitable? What is ur line u line for A high flops? Are u just putting all ur$ in evry time u flop a draw? Considering the c-bet freq of the average villain, we are only gng to see 3cards most of the time.
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dont forget the donk bet as an option marty if calling pre, tight opponents luvvvv donk bets , especially small ones :)
TT if reraised pre allows villain to play his ranges perfectly , even with AK he his better off seeing 5 cards rather than 3.....if 3betting to bluff to fold to a 4bet i"d prefer 2 suited cards like KXs QXs.... 56 boshi i"d prefer calling with it rather than 3betting given stack sizes and implied odds etc blah blah, seeming as we are up against pub opponents i"d not be too bothered polarizing my 3bet range from our suited crap to top end stuff and calling with pairs and connectors..
I really do not have a flatting range from the SB here. If we were IP then I peel a lot lighter, but I cnt see any advantages to flatting s/c"s against this kind of player. I guess we can set-mine 22-77, but again I would rather 3b for the reasons mentioned above.
Our 3b range for value against hs opening range should prob be 1010+ AQo+. This has around 57% against villains range, so we can actually widen this profitably, but seems good as a default against this player type.
The rest of our 3b range is more speculative, and pretty undefined imo. Its filled with hands that we are just trying to pick up a small pot with.
Really curious about the 3bet bluff option, If your range is undefined.....
How do you decide if or when you"re gonna be 3 bet bluffing and how do you keep tabs on your frequencies.
Game theorists suggest upto 1:1 value to bluff ratio in balanced 3 betting ranges, your example of 1010+ AQo+ for value is top 4.5% so assuming we don"t have a calling range ( thats a debate all of its own but you make some valid points) we should have a total 3bet range of top 9% = 88+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,AJo+,KQo
1010+ AQo+ for value
88,99,ATs,AJs,KQs,AJo as a bluff
usually you would also have a calling range, splitting those two set of ranges and using hands not quite good enough to call with as your bluff range, so total range would look like......
top 4.5% 3 bet for value = 1010+ AQo+
4.6%-9% Call = 88,99,ATs,AJs,KQs,AJo
(not suggesting we call with this range here and its likely a smaller "value:call:Bluff" ratio applies but doubt very much if its 0 for calling, these ranges would of course have to adjust based on effective stack size too.)
9.1%-13.5% 3 bet bluff = 77,A8s,A9s,K9s-KJs,QTs,JTs,ATo,KJo,KQo
nice to see u thinking snapper about balancing ranges , even in pub comps its good to experiment imho.. just to get u thinking more on it, take a look-see at this article, good to know for playing good tough players but maybe not applicable for the pub :) like the author says and i"d agree that if when polarizing your ranges then if your opponent is not very good then it doesnt matter 1 jot , as they dont know how to exploit it and more than likely dont even notice you are polarized to either extreme...
http://www.cardrunners.com/article/110/the-problems-with-a-polarized-range/
edit - right i"m off across the pond for 3months or so in a couple of days so i"ll wish every1 within APAT a premature Merry Christmas and a happy new year , and may the poker gods be kind to you all.........
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This is not a fold pre. You just have to be cautious pre flop.
Call is fine- re raising is bad.
Post flop you played it fine too- this is exactly the kind of flop you"re looking for although if opponent is tight as described I probs just call flop but don"t mind getting it in here.
And noble"s right. Bet small to reshove is a good play here too. Depends how much F/E you can build with your sizing
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This is not a fold pre. You just have to be cautious pre flop.
Call is fine- re raising is bad.
Post flop you played it fine too- this is exactly the kind of flop you"re looking for although if opponent is tight as described I probs just call flop but don"t mind getting it in here.
And noble"s right. Bet small to reshove is a good play here too. Depends how much F/E you can build with your sizing
Wow, me and George in complete agreement!
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Always a sign of a good hand when there is so much disagreement. Different strokes...
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villain was utg +1 and had hardly played a hand, only got his chips in with big pairs pre flop that won the race thats why i pegged him as very tight
im glad there are many views on this and even though it was effectively my busto hand im happy the way i played it, as george2loose says its not an auto fold but one you need to be cautious off
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villain was utg +1 and had hardly played a hand, only got his chips in with big pairs pre flop that won the race thats why i pegged him as very tight
im glad there are many views on this and even though it was effectively my busto hand im happy the way i played it, as george2loose says its not an auto fold but one you need to be cautious off
Well, his play with KJ suggests that something changed him from his "uber-tight" play!
I guess trying to profile players in a pub tournament can be tricky!
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clearly not, but to answer your original question, yes seriously, I may fold here :D
"I may fold" is reasonable, at the very least it does suggest a viable alternative.
as soon as you have pegged him as a very tight player who happens to have the only stack at the table that can hurt you, why on earth do you want to get involved with a marginal raggy ace?
Insta-fold preflop!
"Insta-fold preflop!", on the other hand....... :D
yeah yeah yeah, picky bugger :D
o dear
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My point was that he may not play his cards "face up" post flop and we may not be able to play "perfect poker" as kinboshi suggested.
if he plays his cards face up youll see what he has ;D ;D ;D