In Online League, it is folded to Chipfireball of Sunderland who raises and announces to patrickcon...also Sunderland...
"A-Qs"
Patrickcon folds and Chipfireball shows :as: qs
I told him that was blatant cheating, which he didn"t like !
In my opinion, that shouldn"t be allowed and any points scored by him should be wiped from tonight"s game.
If they are not, then cheating like that is condoned and may well happen again by other sides.
What do you think ?
I think not busting ur team mates is an "unwritten rule" , but there is no other word for that than blatant cheating. Absolute disgrace.
clarify then Stu
...
So who actually got "cheated" out of any chips? Obviously someone got cheated for the chat to be full of cheater comments.
...
Not interested in the player who announced he had 10 10 then Leigh?
I agree this is cheating.
I also think we need clarification on the rules as other teams have admitted things on this forum which could also be cheating.
Notts have team members currently refusing to play due to the perceived level of collusion going on. I think clarification is required minimum.
If there are set rules drawn up with regards how team mates should play against one another, then they need to be posted and THEN enforced. They also need to be realistic in the first place.
If there are set rules drawn up with regards how team mates should play against one another, then they need to be posted and THEN enforced. They also need to be realistic in the first place.
How? Team mate A open shoves a short stack, Team mate B folds AA. Who"s to know? How do you enforce then?
(and fwiw I don"t think folding AA there would be cheating in a team game - if calling damages the team"s chance of winning, then it would be a bad move to call.)
Not interested in the player who announced he had 10 10 then Leigh?
Have you sent details to Leigh, Carl?
If there are set rules drawn up with regards how team mates should play against one another, then they need to be posted and THEN enforced. They also need to be realistic in the first place.
How? Team mate A open shoves a short stack, Team mate B folds AA. Who"s to know? How do you enforce then?
I think I also saw someone on a table announce he had 10 10... Similar circumstances but not entirely sure.. wrong though..!! Regardless if it is blind on blind, same team mate, its wrong. Next thing is, same people will be doing it 3 or 4 seats away from each other..
If there are set rules drawn up with regards how team mates should play against one another, then they need to be posted and THEN enforced. They also need to be realistic in the first place.
How? Team mate A open shoves a short stack, Team mate B folds AA. Who"s to know? How do you enforce then?
(and fwiw I don"t think folding AA there would be cheating in a team game - if calling damages the team"s chance of winning, then it would be a bad move to call.)
Poker companies and their auditors can use forensic accounting software to detect anomalies in play, do we really need to get to that point with an APAT $10 game?
and with all respect Steve your interpretation of what is and isn"t cheating is not the one we should be going with. Nor is whether or not I agree or disagree with you. We should respect the APAT rules.
If there are set rules drawn up with regards how team mates should play against one another, then they need to be posted and THEN enforced. They also need to be realistic in the first place.
How? Team mate A open shoves a short stack, Team mate B folds AA. Who"s to know? How do you enforce then?
show all cards after hand finishes?
I think I also saw someone on a table announce he had 10 10... Similar circumstances but not entirely sure.. wrong though..!! Regardless if it is blind on blind, same team mate, its wrong. Next thing is, same people will be doing it 3 or 4 seats away from each other..
Carl,
If you think there are grounds for reviewing this accusation, then let me know the details. Players involved, how the action went, table number etc.
Any rule that cannot be enforced is a non-rule.
I think I also saw someone on a table announce he had 10 10... Similar circumstances but not entirely sure.. wrong though..!! Regardless if it is blind on blind, same team mate, its wrong. Next thing is, same people will be doing it 3 or 4 seats away from each other..
Carl,
If you think there are grounds for reviewing this accusation, then let me know the details. Players involved, how the action went, table number etc.
Based on what happened with this hand in this thread, the person who announced his cards to whoever was left in the hand did the very same things as got punished, so, Yes, I do think there are grounds. But, can I give you the table number and players involved one day later, no. All I can say is, I was out of the tournament and I was railing a team mate, Destroyer316, and saw it happen. I never commented in the chat at the time but do remember thinking, wow, you can"t do that.!!
Any rule that cannot be enforced is a non-rule.
I quite agree... could you have word with FIFA about the offside rule, when you have a spare moment?
As was pointed out to me last week, there is no I in TEAM. But is there any TEAM in the APAT Online National League?
I raise this point as a newly appointed team captain, acting for Team Carlisle. With recuritment bringing in first time players to the APAT organisation and this particular competiton, I am being asked tactical queries from those players.
My first comment has been to make all players aware of 888"s stance on "soft-play", which is covered in the T&Cs on this fourm:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Compliance
15 - Collusion or Chipdumping between players from the same club (or an opponent) is not allowed and will result in the disqualification of both players and any individual points they may score. Soft playing is also likely to be picked up by the 888Poker compliance / fraud team and lead to the closing of player accounts and possible confiscation of player funds.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also tell players that it is there $11 that they are buying-in with and to play the game as they see fit. I have given no instruction on how to play against team members either.
This brings me to my question - are we playing a team game here, or are we in effect playing an individual game but scoring points as a team? I hope this makes sense and by typing the question i think I"ve answered my own question, although I think it is a point worth making.
I have no problem with the collusion/chip-dumping ruling, or in fact, the way the game is structured and the very fact that we cannot soft-play - or are advised not to. Again, I still think it a point worth making though.
Just to add my few pennyworth...and in my opinion....
At the end of the day this is a TEAM game.
When and ONLY WHEN there are two (or more) memebers of the same team left in the pot, AND NO OTHER TEAM IS IN THE POT, then they should be allowed to disclose their cards as it has no direct affect on any other team....
I play in several other team games on various sites and this has always been the accepted ruling....
words
Well done us for taking the punishment on the chin.
When and ONLY WHEN there are two (or more) memebers of the same team left in the pot, AND NO OTHER TEAM IS IN THE POT, then they should be allowed to disclose their cards as it has no direct affect on any other team....
I agree this is cheating.
I also think we need clarification on the rules as other teams have admitted things on this forum which could also be cheating.
Notts have team members currently refusing to play due to the perceived level of collusion going on. I think clarification is required minimum.
Also, with apps such as skype and messenger.... even facebook chat, it is too easy for team mates to be colluding undetected, and if people don"t think this is going on when there"s money to be made, they are naive.
+1 to Marty. The bloke talks sense on this occasion
I think chip"s action was harmless enough compared to someone sitting at the table and ranting after...
tbh - I really think a few people here are making way too much of this. Forums seem to make people more likely to blow things out of proportion.
It was a mistake, but not one done with any malice. It was apologised for and resolved. Problem solved.
Its virtually impossible for APAT to enforce non-collusion rules in this format. I think they look for their members to help them out a bit, and just use common sense. That is really what this comes down to. We do not need a new rule-book, just for their members to use common sense and nt make a mountain out of a molehill!!
I think chip"s action was harmless enough compared to someone sitting at the table and ranting after...
I think chip"s action was harmless enough compared to someone sitting at the table and ranting after...
Sorry but i dont want this issue lost amongst all the other posts...
Something happened on the other table between Diablo and bitofatart - both Solent players I believe as I have just found out. There was one hand where clear collusion took place of a player announcing his hand to the other. I thought this was friendly mind games where we may tell an opponent our hand to put them off or make them believe they"ve made a bad decision. However, I"ve just found out they"re on the same team making it more questionable.
I know Mars of Nottingham also commented whether this was legal at the time in the chatbox, and I also asked the question in the chatbox as to whether they were same or opposing teams - but got no response at the time so gave them benefit of the doubt until now.
It affects the whole dynamics of the game and is not right. I know several Notts players including me, who"ve been there since division 3 are considering whether its worth playing.
Myself and Mars who are both Notts players were constantly raising and shoving on each other without regard for each other"s survival.
I think this needs to be dealt with swiftly because it undermines the whole point of the league and more importantly its credibility and competitiveness.
at one point near the bubble ( long after the incident in question ) there were i think 7 at our table and 4 of us on the same team. i was sat with a decent stack between 2 team-mates who are short stacked. the other bloke on our team is chip leader. in effect i"m paralysed and bleeding chips to try and nurse through 2 blokes who altho on the same team i"ve never met in my life and wouldn"t know from adam. i sat for 4 hours to make 6 bucks profit, and threw away any chance of winning to help blokes i dont know get points some "pro" at the table keeps telling me we are going to lose anyway. for the privelege i get over an hours worth of abuse from phil ivey and his sad sidekick, and then have to sit up till gone 1 a.m. dealing with a stewards inquiry.
For my money I"m not particularly satisfied with the attitude of the Sunderland team on this one
For my money I"m not particularly satisfied with the attitude of the Sunderland team on this one
Theres nowt wrong with my attitude marra
I PM"ed Leigh as soon as the chat went "overboard" as i knew it was out of order. I even suggested docking Chips points in the PM to keep the peace ffs. We would have had points deducted anyway but the fact remains that i put this in my first PM to Leigh after the incident happened has got to count for something. We are as straight as they come including Chip.
The last thing i want is people thinking we are colluding or in general have anything bad to say about us as a group of individuals.
His actions in the game have been taking out of context as he seen it as table banter but yes it was wrong and its been dealt with in the correct manner.
I put a rather large post on the first page of this thread appologising for his actions and together with disclosure of what i put in my initial PM to Leigh about the incident, for you to say "I"m not particularly satisfied with the attitude of the Sunderland team on this one" is a joke comment.
As for anyone still in any doubts about us colluding - we dont, we havent and we never ever will.
as for snappers comments... human beings are pre-programmed to be inherently selfish. it is part of our psychological make-up. some more than others, but generally speaking we like to get our own way in relationships with other human beings.
fwiw i know some hugely intelligent human beings who are not familiar with the apat rulebook. my mother, who is a doctor, doesn"t even know how to play poker at all. should we have her shot ?
I put a rather large post on the first page of this thread appologising for his actions and together with disclosure of what i put in my initial PM to Leigh about the incident, for you to say "I"m not particularly satisfied with the attitude of the Sunderland team on this one" is a joke comment.
as far as i"m concerned it"s done with and for the sake of the team i will probably just watch from now on.
as far as i"m concerned it"s done with and for the sake of the team i will probably just watch from now on.
Wash your mouth out. Look at Crouchy last week in Madrid. What happened in the next game on Saturday??? He won his team 3 points.
Bounce-back-ability FTW ;D
This was bound to happen and the reason why Jack pointed out that I am not participating.
Too much of a grey area for me.
The Sunderland lads did it in the chatbox. Maybe other teams are using other methods?
Whilst it"s not enforceable I won"t be playing the league games.
Doubt many will care. Just my two cents
......We all make mistakes (Ask my Wife !!)
This was bound to happen and the reason why Jack pointed out that I am not participating.
Too much of a grey area for me.
The Sunderland lads did it in the chatbox. Maybe other teams are using other methods?
Whilst it"s not enforceable I won"t be playing the league games.
Doubt many will care. Just my two cents
Okay, enough of this now.
I"m sat here nodding in agreement at a Dan Owston post.
I"m going to go for a lie down. ;D
just out of interest, how many points did the player from solent who allegedly typed " i"ve got pocket 10"s if you want to call " for the benefit of his team-mate, end up with ? ;) :D
just out of interest, how many points did the player from solent who allegedly typed " i"ve got pocket 10"s if you want to call " for the benefit of his team-mate, end up with ? ;) :D
FYI Diablo eliminated Bitofatart a few hands later when they got all-in against each other pre-flop on the final-table bubble.
And whilst we are all confessing, I got 8th and 9th points the wrong way round on Sunday, which means that Bristol finish in 3rd place, and not 2nd.
My punishment is going to be a very costly bar bill next time I see Suzanne. Really sorry about that. ;D
Wouldnt work, because knowing who you play againast and how they play is a massive part of poker.
Wouldnt work, because knowing who you play againast and how they play is a massive part of poker.
So you don"t play poker with randoms them, either online or live?
Wouldnt work, because knowing who you play againast and how they play is a massive part of poker.
So you don"t play poker with randoms them, either online or live?
Think a lot of the draw of APAT is camraderie which this would almost completely detract from.
Wouldnt work, because knowing who you play againast and how they play is a massive part of poker.
So you don"t play poker with randoms them, either online or live?
Think a lot of the draw of APAT is camraderie which this would almost completely detract from.
+1
wow Marty talks sense again! ;D
Wouldnt work, because knowing who you play againast and how they play is a massive part of poker.
So you don"t play poker with randoms them, either online or live?
Think a lot of the draw of APAT is camraderie which this would almost completely detract from.
Wouldnt work, because knowing who you play againast and how they play is a massive part of poker.
So you don"t play poker with randoms them, either online or live?
Think a lot of the draw of APAT is camraderie which this would almost completely detract from.
I think a lot of players would give away their identity as soon as they opened their mouths in the chat box! :)
I think a lot of players would give away their identity as soon as they opened their mouths in the chat box! :)
SURELY NOT?
There just needs to be a simple ruling on this.
Don"t announce your cards while a hand is still in play regardless of who you are playing against.
Everything else is fine, if you want to soft play against a team mate that you have probably never even met, then more fool you!
Announcing cards in any hand is at the very least bad etiquette and a no no in any team environment.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;D
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz;D
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz;D
Dunno how your wife puts up with you all that snoring..!!
There just needs to be a simple ruling on this.
Don"t announce your cards while a hand is still in play regardless of who you are playing against.
Everything else is fine, if you want to soft play against a team mate that you have probably never even met, then more fool you!
Announcing cards in any hand is at the very least bad etiquette and a no no in any team environment.
Read the thread, then you"ll realise it"s not so "simple"
There just needs to be a simple ruling on this.
Don"t announce your cards while a hand is still in play regardless of who you are playing against.
Everything else is fine, if you want to soft play against a team mate that you have probably never even met, then more fool you!
Announcing cards in any hand is at the very least bad etiquette and a no no in any team environment.
Read the thread, then you"ll realise it"s not so "simple"
I have! And it"s still simple and I"ll spell it out slowly for you....
Do not say what your cards are whilst a hand is in play.
Got it??????
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz etc
There just needs to be a simple ruling on this.
Don"t announce your cards while a hand is still in play regardless of who you are playing against.
Everything else is fine, if you want to soft play against a team mate that you have probably never even met, then more fool you!
Announcing cards in any hand is at the very least bad etiquette and a no no in any team environment.
Read the thread, then you"ll realise it"s not so "simple"
I have! And it"s still simple and I"ll spell it out slowly for you....
Do not say what your cards are whilst a hand is in play.
Got it??????
Is this still going on??? Sigh....
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k5n1fTw1Js[/youtube]
x
doesn"t play Phil - "This Video Is Private"