Amateur Poker Association & Tour

Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: scouse3465 on June 19, 2011, 19:48:02 PM

Title: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: scouse3465 on June 19, 2011, 19:48:02 PM
PokerStars Game #63548544368: Tournament #425020016, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (600/1200) - 2011/06/19 19:43:10 WET [2011/06/19 14:43:10 ET]
Table "425020016 199" 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: mkr2804 (18750 in chips)
Seat 2: BigDennys (18775 in chips)
Seat 3: scouse3465 (14214 in chips)
Seat 4: richi2207 (27854 in chips)
Seat 5: Hobbes200 (51678 in chips)
Seat 6: Doommy (52930 in chips)
Seat 7: flashdisastr (74388 in chips)
Seat 8: spliffudo (45255 in chips)
Seat 9: aylinka18 (54753 in chips) ** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to scouse3465 [Jh Jd]
Doommy: folds
flashdisastr: folds
spliffudo: folds
aylinka18: raises 2400 to 3600
mkr2804: folds
BigDennys: folds
scouse3465: raises 10494 to 14094 and is all-in
richi2207: folds
Hobbes200: folds
aylinka18: calls 10494
*** FLOP *** [3d 2h Qs]
*** TURN *** [3d 2h Qs] [Kh]
*** RIVER *** [3d 2h Qs Kh] [8h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
aylinka18: shows [7s 4s] (high card King)
scouse3465: shows [Jh Jd] (a pair of Jacks)
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: scouse3465 on June 19, 2011, 19:50:10 PM
thought i think it was awful call by villan , happy with it but struggling to see how he makes call , surely not enough odds ! Any other reasons , and i been  and i been playing like a nit too
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: scouse3465 on June 19, 2011, 19:54:58 PM
really would like to see if there any legitiment reason for call cos i cant see one
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: SirPercival on June 19, 2011, 20:05:41 PM
misclick?
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: scouse3465 on June 19, 2011, 20:11:09 PM

misclick?


did cross my mind but raised pre too lol
maybe just lucky hand or something. or xmas pressie early lol
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: Swinebag on June 19, 2011, 20:58:10 PM
Its nearly 2 to 1 and its scouse.........I call!!
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: Swinebag on June 19, 2011, 21:16:20 PM
just stoved it and against a shipping range of any pair, A8s+, any suited broadway, unsuited A9+, KT+ and QJ, the might 74 soooooooted has just about enough equity to make the call. Given that it is 20% of his stack, it is worth a punt.

If your shipping range is tighter there steve, then

1. I eat my hat

2. I still call anyway ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: samuel_9 on June 20, 2011, 00:02:26 AM
have to agree with rob on this one
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: TheSnapper on June 20, 2011, 02:50:35 AM


aylinka18 has some good results.

$450,659 in Prizes

$9,932 Profit   

2% ROI   

$116    ABI

Would suggest he was aware he got himself priced in to call.

Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: dwh103 on June 20, 2011, 03:37:51 AM
I suppose in addition to the odds it"s really good for his image, I.e. Making the thought of a light shove vs him less appealing. On some tables the gain in the future may outweight the immediate -EV
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: AMRN on June 20, 2011, 07:32:51 AM

I suppose in addition to the odds it"s really good for his image, I.e. Making the thought of a light shove vs him less appealing. On some tables the gain in the future may outweight the immediate -EV


Thing is, against a reasonable shoving range (22+,A8s+,KJs+,A9o+,KQo), he has 34% equity. The pot is paying him 2:1 for his call - almost exactly the right pot odds...... so his call is not really all that -EV, it"s borderline break even.

As Dave says, great for the image to the rest of the table - going to make it much harder for people to play back at him.... and he can afford to buy this image without excessively damaging his stack - he still has 33xBB behind if he loses.

(Not sure who no ante"s in play in a Pokerstars $215 tourney in level 14)
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: deanp27 on June 20, 2011, 13:24:54 PM
He probably feels he won"t be raise/folding to c10-12 bb stack, so may have planned to call you off before he even opened
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: Marty719 on June 20, 2011, 13:46:21 PM

He probably feels he won"t be raise/folding to c10-12 bb stack, so may have planned to call you off before he even opened


this......especially when he 3x"s.
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: PantsMan on June 20, 2011, 14:23:22 PM
It"s on Pokerstars so no real surprise.

Just don"t understand how the Jacks held up. Surely the board came out J - 3 - 9, turn 5, river 6? Have you contacted technical support to let them know their software glitched?

As for the call, personally i think it"s dreadful. Don"t mind the pre-flop raise but not calling the shove. Much better spots  imo. As for his image, does it more harm than good for me.
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: AMRN on June 20, 2011, 14:40:28 PM

As for the call, personally i think it"s dreadful. Don"t mind the pre-flop raise but not calling the shove. Much better spots  imo. As for his image, does it more harm than good for me.


Andy - you don"t mind a preflop raise to 3x, but you would then fold to a 10x shove? Shouldn"t be opening 3x if you gonna fold to a shortstack shove.
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: scouse3465 on June 20, 2011, 15:12:05 PM
Some good points ty all . Made no odds cos went out about 50 before the money, i 3 bet jammed with about 17 bigs with AK got 4 bet shoved by 10`s when he just had me covered and the 10s held ! Win that race and was on course for a swindells lol
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: PantsMan on June 20, 2011, 16:25:24 PM


As for the call, personally i think it"s dreadful. Don"t mind the pre-flop raise but not calling the shove. Much better spots  imo. As for his image, does it more harm than good for me.


Andy - you don"t mind a preflop raise to 3x, but you would then fold to a 10x shove? Shouldn"t be opening 3x if you gonna fold to a shortstack shove.


Well, i wouldn"t be opening there to 3x to be fair. Should have stated that. I meant the raise itself, not the amount.
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: TheSnapper on June 20, 2011, 16:48:00 PM


As for the call, personally i think it"s dreadful. Don"t mind the pre-flop raise but not calling the shove. Much better spots  imo.



This is really flawed thinking Andy. The pot odds make this a neutral / + EV call so neither calling or folding are dreadful but you do have to take really thin edges to succeed in these huge field events.

It is most likely, as stated earlier, that aylinka18 raised knowing who he"d call a shove from and who he"d fold to.

Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: PantsMan on June 20, 2011, 17:24:46 PM



As for the call, personally i think it"s dreadful. Don"t mind the pre-flop raise but not calling the shove. Much better spots  imo.



This is really flawed thinking Andy. The pot odds make this a neutral / + EV call so neither calling or folding are dreadful but you do have to take really thin edges to succeed in these huge field events.

It is most likely, as stated earlier, that aylinka18 raised knowing who he"d call a shove from and who he"d fold to.





But Scouse had also stated earlier that he"d been playing tight (as it"s Scouse this could well mean only playing the top 80% of hands! ;o).

So if Aylinka raised knowing who he"d fold to how come he chose to call against someone who"d been playing tight?

If it were someone Scouse knew and he was playing his normal game i don"t mind so much, as it is there are much better spots.
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: AMRN on June 20, 2011, 17:39:57 PM




As for the call, personally i think it"s dreadful. Don"t mind the pre-flop raise but not calling the shove. Much better spots  imo.



This is really flawed thinking Andy. The pot odds make this a neutral / + EV call so neither calling or folding are dreadful but you do have to take really thin edges to succeed in these huge field events.

It is most likely, as stated earlier, that aylinka18 raised knowing who he"d call a shove from and who he"d fold to.





But Scouse had also stated earlier that he"d been playing tight (as it"s Scouse this could well mean only playing the top 80% of hands! ;o).

So if Aylinka raised knowing who he"d fold to how come he chose to call against someone who"d been playing tight?

If it were someone Scouse knew and he was playing his normal game i don"t mind so much, as it is there are much better spots.


you are making an assumption that he was paying attention to Scouse"s VPIP etc.

Also, even if Scouse is only shoving top 8% (88+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,AJo+), 74s still has 30%.
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: PantsMan on June 20, 2011, 23:57:16 PM





As for the call, personally i think it"s dreadful. Don"t mind the pre-flop raise but not calling the shove. Much better spots  imo.



This is really flawed thinking Andy. The pot odds make this a neutral / + EV call so neither calling or folding are dreadful but you do have to take really thin edges to succeed in these huge field events.

It is most likely, as stated earlier, that aylinka18 raised knowing who he"d call a shove from and who he"d fold to.





But Scouse had also stated earlier that he"d been playing tight (as it"s Scouse this could well mean only playing the top 80% of hands! ;o).

So if Aylinka raised knowing who he"d fold to how come he chose to call against someone who"d been playing tight?

If it were someone Scouse knew and he was playing his normal game i don"t mind so much, as it is there are much better spots.


you are making an assumption that he was paying attention to Scouse"s VPIP etc.

Also, even if Scouse is only shoving top 8% (88+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,AJo+), 74s still has 30%.


Steve, are you honestly saying you think it"s a good play? Would you make the same play? If so we need to talk strategy hand/values etc next time we meet!
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: AMRN on June 21, 2011, 09:12:45 AM






As for the call, personally i think it"s dreadful. Don"t mind the pre-flop raise but not calling the shove. Much better spots  imo.



This is really flawed thinking Andy. The pot odds make this a neutral / + EV call so neither calling or folding are dreadful but you do have to take really thin edges to succeed in these huge field events.

It is most likely, as stated earlier, that aylinka18 raised knowing who he"d call a shove from and who he"d fold to.





But Scouse had also stated earlier that he"d been playing tight (as it"s Scouse this could well mean only playing the top 80% of hands! ;o).

So if Aylinka raised knowing who he"d fold to how come he chose to call against someone who"d been playing tight?

If it were someone Scouse knew and he was playing his normal game i don"t mind so much, as it is there are much better spots.


you are making an assumption that he was paying attention to Scouse"s VPIP etc.

Also, even if Scouse is only shoving top 8% (88+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,AJo+), 74s still has 30%.


Steve, are you honestly saying you think it"s a good play? Would you make the same play? If so we need to talk strategy hand/values etc next time we meet!


Andy, I"m saying that if you are prepared to open raise for 3x, with a plan to fold to a 10x short stack shove, you are playing way too spewy. If you plan to fold to a short stack 10x shove, then you really shouldn"t be opening for 3x...... but your original response said you thought the open 3x raise was fine.
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: PantsMan on June 21, 2011, 11:38:42 AM
I explained that one a bit later. I said i didn"t mind the raise, not the amount. I wouldn"t be raising to 3x, it would be 2 to 2.5, but i"d fold to a 12x shove (which it was closer to) from someone who i"d seen to be playing tight, when i"m only holding 7-4. Calling there is far more spewy imo.
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: TheSnapper on June 21, 2011, 15:47:03 PM


i"d fold to a 12x shove (which it was closer to) from someone who i"d seen to be playing tight, when i"m only holding 7-4. Calling there is far more spewy imo.



He may have been playing tight from 20 down to his current 12 BB"s ( we"ll take his word for it  :) ) but now with 12 BB"s his range for pushing has to widen.

So, on the button with 12 BB"s versus a loose opening range, what"s your range for resteal jamming.
Title: Re: Anyone else make this call ! couldnt believe it when he turned over?
Post by: I Q8Holds I on June 30, 2011, 00:06:01 AM
Youv"e got the odds to call [2:! as stated above] aslong as you have a chipstack to take a hit i call