Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: rudders on July 22, 2011, 20:50:39 PM
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//This is rudder jnr just realised i was logged onto my dads account ;D
-Should i of called.
PokerStars Game #64919944882: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.50/$1.00 USD) - 2011/07/22 20:32:16 WET [2011/07/22 15:32:16 ET]
Table "Porzia V" 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: DaMethod ($57.25 in chips)
Seat 2: Q8Holds ($159.15 in chips)
Seat 3: kolya666 ($30 in chips)
Seat 4: 53495 ($542.85 in chips)
Seat 5: PokaTax ($170.85 in chips)
Seat 6: VeryK1nd ($100 in chips)
DaMethod: posts small blind $0.50
Q8Holds: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Q8Holds [Ad 3h Jc Th]
kolya666: folds
53495: folds
PokaTax: raises $2 to $3
VeryK1nd: folds
DaMethod: folds
Q8Holds: raises $6.50 to $9.50
PokaTax: calls $6.50
*** FLOP *** [6h 6d Ah]
Q8Holds: checks
PokaTax: bets $7
Q8Holds: calls $7
*** TURN *** [6h 6d Ah] [Js]
Q8Holds: checks
PokaTax: bets $17
Q8Holds: calls $17
*** RIVER *** [6h 6d Ah Js] [Qd]
Q8Holds: bets $17
PokaTax: raises $70 to $87
Q8Holds: folds
Uncalled bet ($70) returned to PokaTax
PokaTax collected $98.50 from pot
PokaTax: doesn"t show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $101.50 | Rake $3
Board [6h 6d Ah Js Qd]
Seat 1: DaMethod (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Q8Holds (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 3: kolya666 folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 4: 53495 folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 5: PokaTax collected ($98.50)
Seat 6: VeryK1nd (button) folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
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ffs posted wrong hand ill edit lol
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Guy was playing aggresive in postion, i know he peels worst when i 3bet [although not the finest re raise]..// can he ever have a hand on the river?
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Another fold pre for me...but once the board pairs on the flop...I"m done with it.
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I can see a reason for calling, it"s just not a strong one.
Your hand to him looks like a busted draw or a weak made hand. Although you"re stronger than either of those phrases suggest it would indicate his range is polarised on the river. Doubt he"s raising the river with a similar hand to yours after the previous action.
Even if you have a player capable of bluff raising the river, the bet sizing is pretty big so I"d weigh his range towards strength.
Obviously throw out the above if you have a lot of history or, but on face value looking at the hand/action and thinking of the average PLO player you"re comfortably beat to me.
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Another fold pre for me...but once the board pairs on the flop...I"m done with it.
I"m in agreement with Paulie. OMG!
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I know next to nothing about 6 max Omaha cash but the 3 bet light seems fine to me. I think you should bet flop. You aren"t repping much here with your check call line. You go for the defensive river bet which gets raised so assuming you didn"t do this to induce a raise you feel you are beat so should fold.
If you feel that you have under repped your hand so bad then a call on the river can be justified but I"d be c/c ing rather than b/c ing.
Though generally I think there are more hands that neat you than bluffs here.
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No brainer
It"s your Dad"s account max on every street
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Don"t like the way you"ve played this on any street apart from pre
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http://propokertools.com/odds_oracle
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Okay here"s my thinking (rudders jnr here) - Sorry on my phone and haven"t found the tab/ enter key. Preflop is super spewy and bad. On the flop by betting the flop he"s repping a really thin group of hands (66-he"d probably check,ace6,6789 hands ish ) although I think he checks back most of those. For pot control and to trap/ I could quite easily have aces over). The turn cements in my head I have the best hand if he had infact of bet out with ak. The river bet I think anyone would flat a6,q6,j6, a straight. Leaving him quad 6"s , aces,qq,jj - I don"t think he has jj or qq most people who play bluffs then hit will then flat call + it"s a really weird way to play either of these hands but is a distinct possibilty. He doesn"t have aces ever he"d already got it in twice pre with the ugliest aces known to man. 66 again there is a slim chance but the size of his bet sort of indicates he wasn"t that strong as I think he would of made it like 60-70 with quads or any value hand. Summary: I don"t think there is any hand here that his betsizing represents. I"m pretty sure it was a stone cold bluff. Also sorry for bad grammar and layout of my post ::)
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Ok...... Original Rudders here! My thoughts for what they are worth. So much in this hand depends on the table dynamics and your knowledge of the player. First of all you are out of position so to reraise here when you think he will call is bad ( if there is 50%+ that he will fold to rr then maybe but I suspect that this is not the first 3 bet you have made!). You have now inflated the pot to make tough decisions out of position with a marginal holding. For the record if the ace was suited it would have been a far better holding in my opinion. Having taken an aggressive line you have to consider what you are representing. If it were me playing a half pot lead on the flop looks like aaxx trying to get value from a spray player ( mainly because most people think this all I rr with pre!). If he is a spewtard a half pot bet on the turn is ok. Then you have to decide whether to jam or ch/fold the river. This really depends on whether you think he will fold a 6 or rivered straight. I know it"s a paired board but once you have rr this a believable line. And these idiots will call with ak or a fl draw.
The way you have played it doesn"t make any sense other than a 6xxx hand. Aa would click back on turn IMHO. Or even lead turn. Certainly bet half pot on river if you want to represent anysort of holding although I favour the check.
For the record I fold pre. Mainly because I am out of position against an aggro player who will make me make difficult decisions where I am guessing all the way.
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Would"a guessed....Rudders knows the difference between should of and should have. ;D
(Sorry, pet peeve of mine)
Give "em a break Paulie... English isn"t their first language ;)
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I don"t think you can comfortably say he checks back 6xxx hands on the flop. He gains absolutely nothing by getting to the turn for free unless you have AAxx. The biggest likelihood is that your hand is what it is - a hand that wants to pot control. I"d say a check behind with a decently strong holding is pretty horrific imo.
You haven"t gone into the table dynamic, or any other information. Not sitting at the table myself therefore makes it hard to properly gauge what he"s like, whether he"s generally aggressive, good, spewy, trappy etc.
Turn "should" narrow his range by betting again. Bit tough for him to have a boat unless it"s A6xx - or he sucked pre. If he"s arrived at the above conclusion on the flop then I suppose he can still justify a bet with a 6xxx to protect his hand and get value from yours - am undecided. The bet sizing does look a little more defensive - in that he looks like he wants to bet for value - just not too much! I suppose AJJx + flush draw is in his range, AQQx on his side would be pretty awful as he"d get to the river betting two streets with no additional draw.
A6 for him still ****s on your range on the river, so whilst raising with it may be a tad thin at no point in the hand have you looked like taking a value line so I"d have no issue with it.
If he was going to bluff why does he not do it for cheaper? There aren"t many (probably zero) hands where you"ll call for $50 but fold for $70. So with strength he might as well jam it in your eye just in case you call.
Also, if he"s bluffing, what is he actually bluffing with? Kx or Qx hearts seems a stretch, 3 streets of air the same. Turning AKxx into a bluff? All seem reasonably unlikely given the action.
I"d summise that A6xx, followed by AJJxhh would make up the bulk of his range in this spot.
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maybe call pre - i like the idea of 3 bet pre though but my gut still says fold as were OOP and omaha is a very strong position game
folding every other street
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maybe call pre - i like the idea of 3 bet pre though but my gut still says fold as were OOP and omaha is a very strong position game
folding every other street
agree out pre already said it was super spewy >:)
I agree he can double barrel a 6xxx combo but why then re raise the river? there isn"t too many hand he can have on the river and i tend to find alot of people at .5/1 will start firing without thinking if checked too....
I can"t see someone double barreling aqq/ajj with a flushdraw maybe bet the flop but its super bad too double barrel :Z
I just dont think his river bet makes any sense
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Looking at this, I can"t fault a 3 bet trying to take it down there and then.
However if you are going to check call the bets on 2 streets, why not lead on the flop?
You have taken control of the aggression in the hand by virtue of being called after the 3 bet.
Now the villians range can be pretty wide to call a 3 bet here including AAxx, but you need to test that by leading.
The check looks weak (ok if you have AA here), so you need to represent a hand you would 3 bet with pre. So perhaps instead of calling off $24 in bets and giving the villain the initiative you could lead for maybe $12ish. If he raises you then you can easily fold (remembering you have repped strength and he has to have a narrower range to call or raise) and you saved $12 and gave yourself a shot at winning the pot there and then. If he calls then you re-evaluate on the turn and then if it feels right barrel again.
The problem when we get to the river is that you have no idea what he has, you haven"t tested his hand, just check called it, at the river so many hands have gotten ahead of you that you can never call unless you have a read that he is on total air, but you would never have got that information because you didn"t ask the question.
I agree with Dave"s range analysis as well.
Oh and bin pre, much better spots to tangle ;) ;D