Amateur Poker Association & Tour
Poker Forum => Strategy => Topic started by: WYoung83 on September 21, 2011, 18:15:16 PM
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$20 MTT on stars, 5 places from Min cash, been playing for almost 4 hrs. Im obv not bothered about a min cash or busting before money, but wanna go as deep as possible.
Im in MP with 12bbs and AJo. Players behind me have me covered, I have a tight image and decide to ship it with Fold equity. Thoughs please, is open shoving 12bbs with a hand like this spewy. Im never going to raise and then fold to a 3 bet.
Can i ever just fold pre here to conserve chips for a better spot to doubble up?
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Standard shove.
Usually flipping or behind if called but no other option.
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Got hh? Sounds like a fold so close to money
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I would have agreed that it"s a standard shove every time, but then having read something that Noble posted last week about scraping into the money, I actually perceive the bubble slightly differently.... and there are circumstances where this spot with AJ might be a reasonable fold.
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If on stars defo ship and hope kk behind cos the ace always comes lol
Would ship tbh to take blinds and antes and if u miss out on min cash such is life .
If you get it threw which is likely u upto 14-15ish blinds which is better to wait for better spot than getting blinded away.
If you wait for better spot u prob end up shipping for less blinds and worse hand. But if you reeally want min cash fold and knowing u prob dont , did you ship and i guess u ran into bigger hand and lost hence the post ?
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i"d shove in most cases but close to bubble i would fold
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Rightly or wrongly, I never fold in these types of spots, probs shove 88+, AJo+. Maybe more suited aces + smaller pairs.
Is there a correct shoving range this close to the bubble? Assuming reads as stated in OP.
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I"m pretty sure I"d shove here
would like to see the argument for folding into the money here.
In a stars $20 tourney, this bubble will break pretty quickly, within an orbit I suppose, so you would still have a decent open shoving stack.
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I"m pretty sure I"d shove here
would like to see the argument for folding into the money here.
In a stars $20 tourney, this bubble will break pretty quickly, within an orbit I suppose, so you would still have a decent open shoving stack.
lol havent you just made your own argument for folding then Rob?
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I"m pretty sure I"d shove here
would like to see the argument for folding into the money here.
In a stars $20 tourney, this bubble will break pretty quickly, within an orbit I suppose, so you would still have a decent open shoving stack.
lol havent you just made your own argument for folding then Rob?
That"s what I was thinking
Fold if you want to (almost) make sure of making a bit of profit
Shove if you"re really not bothered about a min cash
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Im obv not bothered about a min cash or busting before money, but wanna go as deep as possible.
Erm shove then ;D
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I"d be tempted to raise 2.2 - 2.4 pre with poss stop n go on flop if called behind pre, especially if you have a tight image at table. Think 12 BB"s shove is too big and could suggest desperate with open spot looking to steal.
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I"d be tempted to raise 2.2 - 2.4 pre with poss stop n go on flop if called behind pre, especially if you have a tight image at table. Think 12 BB"s shove is too big and could suggest desperate with open spot looking to steal.
Do not do this. If you get called it"s a nightmare and if you get set in it"s a puke fold in which case your 12bb stack is now close to 9 bigs.
I used to jam these spots so often but you"re basically burning money. No one plays to min cash- but in an online comp ave stack is gonna be circa 20 bigs anyway so you"re only one double up from having a good shot. Fold to the money- timebank if you need to.
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Thanks for the replies guys. All taken on board. I decided to shove and got called by AQ and i went busto,
fwiw, the result didnt matter at all to me, and i would of started this thread weather i won or lost the hand. I just wanted to know if it was the correct play EV wise without beign results oriented of course.
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I played the Sky Grand Final, and found myself with 12x just around the bubble......... decided that a min cash was irrelevant and that I was playing to win, and that I would take advantage of the bubble.... it folds to me in the SB and I shove and win, then next hand it folds to me on the btn, and I shove blind, get called, and lose.
At the time I justified it by saying I was trying to steal the (very significant) blinds and antes for survival.... but on reflection, just fold another orbit, still have ~10x, and be £300 better off. The buy-in and expenses cost me just about £300, so yeah it would only be a break even result.... but I still had time to find a decent hand and double up, and the avg stack at the time was only around 20x.
Whilst a min cash is not what we set out to achieve, the difference between playing for 14 hours for nothing, and 14.5 hours for £300 is huge - there is no other money jump that is so huge in percentage terms. There is a lot more credit to a min cash than I had previously considered. Therefore AJo in MP is a fairly simple fold in the OP situation.....
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AJo is a very marginal hand to me so i would wait, but as everybody knows that im a rock lol, tight is right so be patient, scrape into the money, then relax and go for it !!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
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Feck, people are coming around to my way of thinking.
It"s one thing AMRN saying he would (now) fold in the OP sit, it"s another him actually doing it. Hard to change the habit of a lifetime ;D
Even G2L wouldn"t shove there any more! Wow this thread has had some "fall off your chair" moments for me.
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What are you guys on about? It's AJ FOLD, FOLD, FOLD :D
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Are we also folding AQ here? Also whats the lowest pair we shove?
I think I have probably been burning money in these spots big time...
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Probs shove QQ+ and maybe AK. Need to see the hand history to be sure
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Probs shove QQ+ and maybe AK. Need to see the hand history to be sure
really george ?? find that hard to believe . But if you say it , must be true poker players never tell fibs lol
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I"d be shoving TT+ Ak and maybe AQ/99 depending
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Probs shove QQ+ and maybe AK. Need to see the hand history to be sure
Not too sure that you would be folding TT/JJ in an unopened pot in this spot George....
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Are we seriously dumping what is usually a raising spot with a raising hand? Am I missing something here? Yeah it"s close to the cash but with only 12 BB"s are we just gonna bleed more chips to the blinds and antes in the "hope" of getting something better? We"ll often end up shipping 2 orbits later with 7/8os or something similar.
Yeah I get the whole AJ thing and cashing, having bubbled in Coventry with the same hand.....but it"s in the top 10% of starting hands and I"m sure we"ve all won plenty of pots that we don"t remember with those very same cards.
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Probs shove QQ+ and maybe AK. Need to see the hand history to be sure
Not too sure that you would be folding TT/JJ in an unopened pot in this spot George....
Need HH as stated
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Are we seriously dumping what is usually a raising spot with a raising hand? Am I missing something here? Yeah it"s close to the cash but with only 12 BB"s are we just gonna bleed more chips to the blinds and antes in the "hope" of getting something better? We"ll often end up shipping 2 orbits later with 7/8os or something similar.
Yeah I get the whole AJ thing and cashing, having bubbled in Coventry with the same hand.....but it"s in the top 10% of starting hands and I"m sure we"ve all won plenty of pots that we don"t remember with those very same cards.
Bubble changes the whole dynamic. This is a super standard fold
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Probs shove QQ+ and maybe AK. Need to see the hand history to be sure
really george ?? find that hard to believe . But if you say it , must be true poker players never tell fibs lol
i agree with george as ive just gone out on pokerstars with jacks v a2, i did cash though thank god :D
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Need HH as stated
HH will give us stacks, blinds & pot size, which of these are factors to consider and why?
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Need HH as stated
HH will give us stacks, blinds & pot size, which of these are factors to consider and why?
Makes a huge difference. MP is where? Stacks cover but by how much? If all stacks only just cover I"m more likely to jam.
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Aj for me is an obvious shove here in LATE position.
Middle pos takes a little more courage/beer!
Think I"m 60/40 in favour of shoving but as in all poker hands one snippet
of info can make such a difference.