The lovely jacks

[Erimus]

Hand from today What would you do with JJ here ? and Guess all the hands

PokerStars Hand #82615346764: Tournament #579010245, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (600/1200) - 2012/06/29 15:35:08 WET [2012/06/29 10:35:08 ET]
Table "579010245 20" 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: er77768 (48543 in chips)
Seat 2: AstexNik (166428 in chips)
Seat 3: erimus14 (56350 in chips)
Seat 4: Flyin063 (56540 in chips)
Seat 5: desertrat75 (69028 in chips)
Seat 6: XXXSuzXXX (43666 in chips)
Seat 7: H31vT (100724 in chips)
Seat 8: Mik143 (30523 in chips)
er77768: posts the ante 125
AstexNik: posts the ante 125
erimus14: posts the ante 125
Flyin063: posts the ante 125
desertrat75: posts the ante 125
XXXSuzXXX: posts the ante 125
H31vT: posts the ante 125
Mik143: posts the ante 125
Mik143: posts small blind 600
er77768: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to erimus14 [ ]
AstexNik: raises 1200 to 2400
erimus14: calls 2400
Flyin063: folds
desertrat75: folds
XXXSuzXXX: folds
H31vT: calls 2400
Mik143: folds
er77768: calls 1200
*** FLOP *** [ ]
er77768: checks
AstexNik: bets 5600
erimus14: raises 8800 to 14400
H31vT: raises 33600 to 48000
er77768: calls 46018 and is all-in
AstexNik: raises 115903 to 163903 and is all-in

[AMRN]

yikes! fold.

Having c-bet his utg raise, followed by shove over a raise, a 3bet, and a 4bet, he must be pretty confident with his hand, and surely he doesn"t do that with 99/TT.  It smacks of AA.... and the others have sets and straights.

JJ crushed.

[Mikeyboy9361]

Defo fold, gotta be a set out there.

[deanp27]

Call flop obv fold now

[Erimus]

It was an easy fold, I will post the rest of the hand history in 5 mins when I can find the file lol.

[Erimus]

er77768: checks
AstexNik: bets 5600
erimus14: raises 8800 to 14400
H31vT: raises 33600 to 48000
er77768: calls 46018 and is all-in
AstexNik: raises 115903 to 163903 and is all-in
erimus14: folds
H31vT: calls 50199 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (65704) returned to AstexNik
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] [Th]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AstexNik: shows [ ] (a pair of Kings)
H31vT: shows [ ] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
H31vT collected 104362 from side pot
er77768: shows [ ] (three of a kind, Eights)
H31vT collected 163654 from main pot
er77768 finished the tournament in 40th place and received $22.44.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 268016 Main pot 163654. Side pot 104362. | Rake 0
Board [ Th]
Seat 1: er77768 (big blind) showed [ ] and lost with three of a kind, Eights
Seat 2: AstexNik showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: erimus14 folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Flyin063 folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 5: desertrat75 folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 6: XXXSuzXXX folded before Flop (didn"t bet)
Seat 7: H31vT (button) showed [ ] and won (268016) with a straight, Seven to Jack
Seat 8: Mik143 (small blind) folded before Flop

Wise after the event

Pre Flop

I think if i 3 bet utg it may get rid of the 97, the 88 prob comes along, utg will prob shove then i would have a very difficult decision pre flop although if i did get lairy turn would of been nice, still turn decision was correct, i managed to finish 13th JJ < A4 Aipf for approx 265k and scd place chips, but it wasnt to be.

[deanp27]

Pre is fine but don"t like raising the flop though. Don"t worry and try not to be results orientated when your jack hits the turn

[Sugarnes]

No one"s putting a lil raise in pre, espec when good chance we"ll be playing oop?

Not saying I always would but...unless we hit a set we"re mostly after a cheap showdown from the off in this spot played this way, not sure how tables playing out though - tonnes of 3-bet bluffing pre, low c-bet rate...  

[Zozzy]

This is a great example of the power of position

The utg min raise is showing strength. It is player dependent but if you don"t have any notes on him his range could have just as many hands that are in front of you as not (3)

I think you were right to call to set mine. I wouldn"t re-raise here with so many players yet to act .
We are now four to the flop and second to act. In this position we need to play the JJ as a "drawing" hand and not a "made" hand. It is a dangerous board and we have missed. We were approx 7.5/1 to hit the Set.
With this flop we need now to play it "check/fold", or in this case fold to the EP bet.
If we were on the button I would have a different way of thinking.

I have folded many times preflop in this situation instead of flatting. My reasoning for this is the combination of the strength shown by the player in ealy position and because we are not in late position. This may be a leak in my game ? too nitty ?





AstexNik played his hand badly on the flop, his 5600 bet is 4bet to 48k ,he is behind to any two pair so it is an easy fold with his overpair.

[Zozzy]

I would appreciate any feedback on my post above as I am unsure if I am being too tight.

[deanp27]

Were not calling just to set mine in my opinion

Whether to call or fold to the cbet depends on a number of factors mainly regarding the opponent. The fact he is cbetting multiway is a bit disconcerting so proceed with caution

[Waz1892]

No one re-raising his open raise with JJ?

Thin the field, pos on him on flop. Gets rid of spec hands like suited connectors small pairs sometimes. With re-raise it also shows very stronghold hands?

If we get a4bet easy fold.. Long run we play less players post flop or save chips finding out now rather than after flop.

[mousebob]

Agree with Waz.
I"m generally 3 betting pre flop here but notes on villain may change that to a call to set mine.
As played I"m folding to villains c-bet on flop.

@ Zozzy....not sure I could fold here in a $10 game unless table very aggro/good. & a 3 bet certain.
Plenty of us muppets think utg is the button & he could easily have small pair/connectors.
If you flop a set you"ll be building yourself a monster stack to win tourney with