How did i play this?

[shozboy1]

The set up is £31 NLHE FO dusktilldawn last night. I have 7000 chips, blinds are 75/150. UTG+1 raises to 600. He has a big stack of 15-20000. I was a later entrant so didn"t see exactly how he"d accumulated this, but his play is generally on the terribleish side. Lots of limping from early position with trash like K9/K8/K7/Q9/Q8/Q7/small connectors. Tends to bet the flop and quickly close down if he gets action. Raises probably 20% of the time he enters a pot, rest of time limping.
I"ve quickly accumulated nearly twice the starting stack in 30 mins or so, really just exploiting some of the other players moves, and come across reasonably solid.

Anyway, he raises to 600 from UTG+1. I look down at 99. I tank for 5-10 secs. Given my stack size I decide to flat call and take a flop in position. First raised pot I"ve played with him. Flop comes Q-6-2 rainbow. He bets out 600 into 1425. I tank for 5-10 secs, and decide to raise to 1225 - trying to induce a cheap fold. He thinks for 5-10 secs and flat calls. Turn comes another 6. He checks, I check back. River is a 5. He checks again. I feel he has something, perhaps a ragged queen (given his prev trash hands) or perhaps a pocket pair 77-1010. I decide to bet out 1400 into the 3000ish pot, and he snap calls. I show 99...

Views on how this hand was played...

[deanp27]

I"d call the flop rather than raise, not really keen on raising but depends on the quality of the villain

as played check behind turn for pot control.

River is pretty sweet and depends how thinly you like to VB and what you put your opponent on during the hand.

Sensible thing would be to end the hand and check but against some villains i will put out a small bet for value

[LongshanksED]

I"d have just flatted the flop and check it down. With a wild opponent the q or 2 sixes on the board anything is in his range. I"d play it small and see were I am at showdown and give us Info on what he played.  if we put in a small value bet and are raised I don"t see how we can call  except as a bluff catcher

[Mikeyboy9361]

I might have been tempted to  re raise Pre, if he is raising with trash you take it down there, if he calls, then maybe he has better than what you have seen previously. As played and with his history, by flatting you are not defining his hand. After he calls your flop raise, I am checking down from here.

[Marty719]

Dnt mind how u played it - 3 betting pre was an option.  Where wer u sitting?

Def dnt mind a thin v/b on the river if villain has paid off lite b4.  I think I play it the same as u against your perception of villain.

[shozboy1]

Thanks for the views. As soon as I made the river bet and he called I was pissed with myself.
Anyhow, he showed down a pair of in the hole. I think on reflection, against this guy in a similar spot, I"d flat call the flop - this can often appear more scary then a 3bet. I should also have checked down the river as my hand had decent showdown value. I think I was mistakenly trying to get him to fold a marginal hand which may have had me beat. This guy definitely cannot lay a hand down.
I wasn"t keen on the pfr reraise (although the reason I tanked for abit was to consider this) because he doesn"t really fold and I didn"t want to play a big pot with my stack. I felt I had enough behind, as did he to play a small pot.

To give an example of this guy, he knocked me out about 10 hands later like this: A weak tight player limps UTG and the villian above limps in behind. I"m in the BB with AA and make a hefty raise to 800 (4x). The weak tight guy calls (for like 40% of his stack!) and the villain comes along for the ride. Flop is 8-5-2 rainbow. At this higher blind level I have like 30BBs so am running with the hand till the end I tell myself. I check the flop, weak-tight checks, and villain leads out for 1000 (into 3000) as I"d expected. I call and weak-tight folds (terrible). Turn is an 8, I check (hoping he puts more in the pot), he pushes all in, I insta call. He shows Q8o and river obv a blank. This isn"t a bad beat story, more further evidence of the kind of player I was up against in the prev hand. I was happy the way I played this last hand and I guess we want to be facing guys like this week in week out. 

Marty I was sitting in the cutoff for the 99 hand

[deanp27]

i wouldn"t 3bet this pre without serious history.

as for the AA hand just get as much in earlier imo, don"t c/c flop

[George2Loose]

Flat pre. Flat flop. Check turn. I would probs value bet river too given action.

[AMRN]

not sure about the value bet on the end - you have showdown value against a lot of his range, but your hand doesn"t stand up if he raises your value bet.....  plus, check it down and you get to see his cards for info.

[shozboy1]

cool

[noble1]

Tends to bet the flop and quickly close down if he gets action.

This guy definitely cannot lay a hand down.

Turn comes another 6. He checks, I check back. River is a 5. He checks again. I feel he has something, perhaps a ragged queen (given his prev trash hands) or perhaps a pocket pair 77-1010. I decide to bet out 1400 into the 3000ish pot, and he snap calls. I show 99...

I dont mind your play pre and on the flop although the reraise i"d make to 1600 to 1700..The turn check is the mistake,this is where your logic has flaws imho , see the 1st two quotes , you have a read that he closes down and folds to action.
His small cbet and checking the turn on this board pretty much says pot control, this situation with your reads if you had reraised slightly more on the flop then it would set up a pot size big enough for a turn all in , all this guff that u read on forums and books that u should not bluff stations is WRONG , u can bluff them but it takes extreme aggression. You say your image is ok which makes the story u tell in your post flop actions more credible , i only stop doing this against players if they have seen me get caught bluffing , then this line of play is redundant as they will be more willing to call light and make the hero calls..
Your check on the turn and the small reraise flop compound the problem on the river as now when he checks [and his stack size] means pretty much any bet u make barring a overbet shove he can call with impunity.. So as played check river...

I would not over use this line above, but simply playing ABC poker in a tag style against the loose call types can get u into all sorts of iffy situations, the AA u play is a classic TAG mistake and that 2nd 8 on the turn and his sudden exhuberance all equals fold , the turn is bet/fold or check/fold  a big SIGH and a mumble of donk under your breath.
The raise u make oop is to small imo [against these types] with 2 limpers 4x is to small , 5x at least but considering your position then charge them a little more , 6x would be ok imo ...

[shozboy1]

My thinking behind the AA hand was that I had to maximise the hand and double up. With 2 limpers, one of whom was weak and the other limping in with all kinds of trash, I felt a bigger raise would have scared off exactly the hands I wanted to come along for the ride. I want a Q8 call all day from the villain. I knew he"d try and steal so I checked the flop to him and he obliged. I checked again on the turn (my hand is well disguised, and he may have put me on AK/AQ logically here), so I didn"t love my call of his all in, but the way I"d played the hand - because he couldn"t put me on AA - I felt it would"ve been too weak to fold. He could"ve had a very wide range here. Pocket pairs - big/med/small/bluffs he feel he can get away with given my check on flop and turn.

I guess my thinking is with my average stack, i need to take the small risk of being outdrawn with AA and go for a double up. If so, I"d have been well placed to push on

[noble1]

making it 4x there with 2 limpers is ok ish in position , my point is you are out of position [oop]..
I think you make a mistake in thinking that villain is putting u on AK etc , from what u describe i"d say he is fairly straight forward post flop [like most average players] he only starts getting strong in his actions when he has a hand , therefore the 8 on the turn is a fairly easy fold..
Yes u want worse hands to call but not cbetting the flop is a mistake imo , 1 pair is not a monster oop.. Again the way villain plays Ten Ten in the previous hand does not suggest he is bluffing here , so i cannot see why u"d think along those lines [the range u put him on?] on a 8528 board ??

[Marty719]

What was ur stack in the AA hand?

[shozboy1]

I think if I remember rightly I had about 25-30BBs