Author Topic: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!  (Read 14338 times)

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PantsMan

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2010, 15:01:29 PM »
By the way.......if you are playing against Steve Bayliff or Dan Owston, IGNORE EVERYTHING I JUST SAID !!


LOL - if it"s scouse he"s either got the nuts or 7-2 off!

Regarding the hand, i"m shoving on the turn. If he wants to come along then good, that"s what you want, the fact he then gets lucky is irrelevant, you"ve got him to make a mistake by calling and you"re a massive favourite.

The call on the river is insane. At the very best it"s a split, at the worst you"re out. You"ve still got nearly 70 big blinds. Fold and move on.

cincicrappykid

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2010, 15:37:57 PM »
lol wot do u no .....
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mort1971

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2010, 16:35:29 PM »
Don`t worry too much about it because i`m quite sure i was first out with my very silly re raise bluff (with the thinking oh well if he calls i can always watch the rugby)and with my opponent hitting the nuts on the flop..can you confirm this you lovely apat bigwigs... ;D

pables

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2010, 16:38:48 PM »

Don`t worry too much about it because i`m quite sure i was first out with my very silly re raise bluff (with the thinking oh well if he calls i can always watch the rugby)and with my opponent hitting the nuts on the flop..can you confirm this you lovely apat bigwigs... ;D



I think Leigh was first out but we were just more reserved at our table and forgot to applaud just as they applauded on your table  :-\
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mort1971

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2010, 16:42:50 PM »
damn ....couldn`t even manage 1st out..nevermind must try harder lol... :"(

showdown

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2010, 17:17:02 PM »
So to summarise the thread, I play bad :)

Just remember guys if I"m shoving the turn to a 3-bet, I"ve got the nuts....


damn ....couldn`t even manage 1st out..nevermind must try harder lol... :"(


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George2Loose

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2010, 18:32:32 PM »
I would probably fold pre but don"t mind the call at all.

Think the raise size on the turn is perfect.

On the river, particularly in an APAT tourney you beat nothing. Just fold.
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pompeytone

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2010, 01:28:32 AM »
Leigh, it takes many tournaments before we realise that it is not about being good or bad at poker, it is about playing our best and praying hard to the poker gods for some luck.
I expect to win every tournament but the reality is i maybe cash in 20% of all the tournaments i play, leaving me 80% dissapointed.
Maybe London will be good for you, i know for certain that i am going to win it because i always beleive in myself. I imagine that leaves all the others left in after i bow out able to laugh at me for being so brazen or big headed about my abilities, on the other hand, if a miracle does happen i can say "i told you so" ...lol

BOINGBLITZ

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2010, 02:57:49 AM »
Gotta love Pants-Man"s note at the end......"Friend of Tony Trippier - Bronze Medal in the Stud !"
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MintTrav

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2010, 04:57:53 AM »
Leigh - wrote a long response but lost it when I had just finished. In a nutshell, my thinking is a lot closer to yours.

Shoving over the 600 is way too conservative. The majority say to shove over his reraise. Some want to do this to make him fold, a few for value in the hope he"ll call. Then there are several that tell you to shove his reraise but don"t say what their objective is - do they want him to call or fold? I think most want him to fold but who knows*. But why would we want him to fold? We are a huge favourite going to the River - >3:1 if he has a set and >9:1 if he has 2P. If we won"t take chances when we are such big favourites, when will we?

I definitely don"t want everyone to fold, but neither do I want them getting to the River cheaply and having the option to put chips in depending on whether they hit. Against two, I"m raising the 600 to about 2600 in the hope of getting one caller. A reraise from him is better, as we can then shove with a realistic hope of being called. If we can get him to call a shove we maximise our advantage, avoid the possibility of being bluffed off a paired board he has missed and accept the small risk of being outdrawn.

I understand what you were trying to do and don"t really disagree with it but he probably won"t pay us off much if he misses the River, so I would try to get as many of his chips as I could into the pot on the Turn, all of them if possible.


*It should be a condition when suggesting an action that you give a reason and state what response you want from your opponent.
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PantsMan

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2010, 10:19:53 AM »

Gotta love Pants-Man"s note at the end......"Friend of Tony Trippier - Bronze Medal in the Stud !"


Can"t compete with MintTrav"s - 5th place - Portsmouth Snooker Club £10 rebuy.  ;D

pompeytone

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2010, 13:43:50 PM »
John,

I had a think about what you have written and want to clarify my opinion.
When Leigh was re-raised surely he would put his opponent on some sort of hand, probably fairly strong, as he has no previous knowledge of how this player plays and currently has the nuts then he would want maximum value with minimum risk. If the range he put his opponent on was pockets making a set or 2 pair then he would anticipate the likelyness of a call to his shove which would get him maximum value if called but minimize the risk of his opponent catching a lucky card because his opponent now has to fold or gamble.
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noble1

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Re: First out in Swansea - Hand advice needed!
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2010, 15:15:08 PM »

but in these spots where I cannot be re-drawn by a flush or a better straight, I would want to keep my player in the hand to extract the most value.

I personally think my play on the turn was OK but bad call on the river with the paired board.




The majority say to shove over his reraise. Some want to do this to make him fold, a few for value in the hope he"ll call. Then there are several that tell you to shove his reraise but don"t say what their objective is - do they want him to call or fold? I think most want him to fold but who knows*. But why would we want him to fold? We are a huge favourite going to the River - >3:1 if he has a set and >9:1 if he has 2P. If we won"t take chances when we are such big favourites, when will we?

Against two, I"m raising the 600 to about 2600 in the hope of getting one caller. A reraise from him is better, as we can then shove with a realistic hope of being called.


In agreement with the reraise size as we then give villain1 [orignal raiser 2.5/1 ish] plus if called it sets up the pot size to get all our chips in.. [sets are 3.5to1 2pairs are 10.1to1 approx]
As played by showdown his reraise gives villains around 4to1 , not quite big enough to give sets incorrect odds but all other hands in villains ranges are drawing thin and mostly given the stack to blinds size , players tend to speculate or see what you are going to do on the next street lol lol [when the players in the pot have a lot of chips compared to the blinds and because they still have a lot of money behind they take fliers etc fold equity has less impact 75bb+  oooo i"ve got chips i can afford it :)]
The sizing of turn bet is not only about getting calls but you would like to threaten as much of your opponent's stack as possible [leverage] on later streets..This helps when u bluff also [think about it] , so it helps bluffs and helps get big hands paid off when u have the goods..Sizing your bets in such way that they carry threat on villains entire stack if he continues is a good weapon in your arsenal to get good at...
As played by showdown the interesting part of the action that caught my eye was that his small reraise was perfect to try to induce a raise from the opponent but we should do this imho in order to build a larger pot so that when they 3bet brain fart we 4bet punish [never to flat] the pot size after villains 3bet is a good % of showdowns stack and it is more than worth to 4bet all in and not be overly concerned if villain folds imho..
fraac mentioned it in the thread earlier about 3betting pre which is a good option imo , why? , because we have the button thats why..When playing deep ish even at 100bbs the button is gold and should be defended by calling raises or reraising them, we come accustomed to defending our blinds when stacks become shallow but when deeper the button should be defended , discourage players on your right from stealing position imho...

meh thats where my opinion is at anyhows...