Ugly Situation - What would you do here?

[Waz1892]

6. Table is running Semi Loose at around 22% Average VPIP, and Fred is around 28%.

Great read with all the reasoning behind each stage.  But to lower the tone so to speak, what is VPIP? and the relevant % you mention?

[kinboshi]

AMRN is a decent player, so I"m looking forward to his rationale behind the hand. 

LOL - you must have me confused with someone else Dan!!

I think not.

OK so here"s what happened, and why I took the actions I did. glad to see that some of you would have done the same thing here.

Firstly, the level of play and value of stack was not a problem - I never play cash games in fear of my stack, and am fully aware that I could bust in one hand. So, my actions and decisions are never influenced by the value of chips I might lose.

When he re-raised from the button, I considered three betting, but was worried about what would happen if he called and I missed the flop, only to then be raised on the flop.... or if he subsequently re-re-raised preflop..... after all, I only had Ace high. At least by just calling, I was able to see a flop, and if it was nasty I could get away cheaply - I was more than prepared to check-fold if I missed the flop and wait for a better time in position. I was also prepared to go large if I hit the flop hard.

Nothing up with calling with AK out of position.  Sometimes you can re-raise with it, sometimes call.  All"s good here.

AK7 was the perfect flop, although I didn"t like the two clubs. I was totally convinced I was ahead now. The chances of him having AA or KK were slim given that I could see two aces and two kings. 77 was a marginal possibility...

I led out with a very small bet to try and look weak and to induce a reraise.  If he had QQ/JJ he might think he could take me off the pot here...

I get your reasoning, but I still prefer to bet larger here and at least get him to call with a weaker hand (or fold one that"s not going to put any more in anyway).  I can"t see QQ or JJ raising you here - but you"d played with Fred before, so maybe that"s his MO. 

When he flat called, I convinced myself he had either a weaker ace - say AQ/AJ, or that he had a flush draw - perhaps QJ clubs. I was still sure I was ahead.

You"re definitely ahead most of the time here.

The pot bet on the turn was to try and make the pot large enough that I would be able to get all in on the river and still be called by AQ/AJ.... and also to make him pay if he had a flush draw. I was prepared to fold on the river if a third club came.

Makes sense, although I still think a larger flop bet helps to build the pot more effectively.

When he moved all in, I was absolutely sure he had AQ, AK, or flush draw..... I was ahead at best, or splitting at worst. I couldn"t believe he would have made this play if he had just hit a set of fours..............

You have to call his range here.

So............ I CALLED, and he flipped...... 77

That"ll be 50p in the pot for the bad beat story...

Experiment over for now - back to 0.50/1 with forays into 1/2. Busting 5% of bankroll is hard enough, but 10% in one hand was just plain hurtful.   But hey, it was effectively freeroll - so not too bad.

Definitely an ouch.  One thing though, Fred played the hand well.  I think that once you get to those levels the players are a large step up from the 0.50/1 tables (where I play).

Interesting hand though.  I"ll be interested in what others thought of it.  I"ve been reviewing the way I play my cash games, and I"ve come to some interesting conclusions.   Won"t be disclosing them on here though .

See you in Estonia at 8pm....

Sorry, didn"t hang around long enough

[AMRN]

6. Table is running Semi Loose at around 22% Average VPIP, and Fred is around 28%.

Great read with all the reasoning behind each stage.  But to lower the tone so to speak, what is VPIP? and the relevant % you mention?

Voluntary Put Into Pot - ie %age of hands where a player volunteered money to the pot

[Departed]

Shame that he flipped 77.

Was good to read through your thinking AMRN.

The call on the flop may have made me a bit more wary of a set, but then again, calls from weaker aces and flush draws are also strong possibilities. The texture of the flop was quite favourable for you, but like Kinboshi said, I"d be building the pot on the flop, rather than the turn.

Anyway, I shall be sticking to $1/$2 and below for now as I don"t think my bankroll can take the kind of action you were getting at $2/4.

[Waz1892]

6. Table is running Semi Loose at around 22% Average VPIP, and Fred is around 28%.

Great read with all the reasoning behind each stage.  But to lower the tone so to speak, what is VPIP? and the relevant % you mention?

Voluntary Put Into Pot - ie %age of hands where a player volunteered money to the pot

Ty AMRN.. when you say voluntary.....how is this determined?./.....sorry if i seem a bit..well stupid..but still try to grasp all the areas....tho u neva stop learning i guess!

[WarBwastardo]

6. Table is running Semi Loose at around 22% Average VPIP, and Fred is around 28%.

Great read with all the reasoning behind each stage.  But to lower the tone so to speak, what is VPIP? and the relevant % you mention?

Voluntary Put Into Pot - ie %age of hands where a player volunteered money to the pot

Ty AMRN.. when you say voluntary.....how is this determined?./.....sorry if i seem a bit..well stupid..but still try to grasp all the areas....tho u neva stop learning i guess!

volunteer |?väl?n?tir|
a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task.

In this case, someone who plays a pot when he"s not in the obligatory blinds.

[AMRN]

If a person puts money in the pot that is not mandatory through the blinds, they are volunterring... this would include the small blind player if he called up to the big blind, or even the big blind player if he called a raise.   Basically if you put chips into the pot after the blinds are posted, you have volunteered and that hand will increase your VP$IP percentage.

Clearly someone who has a higher VP$IP %age than someone else is paying to see more pots and can be deemed as a looser player than the one who has a very low VP$IP. From that you can determine that the player with the higher %age has a much wider range of starting hands, and this can help you to configure your own play accordingly.

In my example, Fred had a 28% VP$IP, and this means that he was willingly paying to see almost 3 flops in 10 hands. Your typical rock will probably have a VP$IP of less than 10%.

[Waz1892]

If a person puts money in the pot that is not mandatory through the blinds, they are volunterring... this would include the small blind player if he called up to the big blind, or even the big blind player if he called a raise.   Basically if you put chips into the pot after the blinds are posted, you have volunteered and that hand will increase your VP$IP percentage.

Clearly someone who has a higher VP$IP %age than someone else is paying to see more pots and can be deemed as a looser player than the one who has a very low VP$IP. From that you can determine that the player with the higher %age has a much wider range of starting hands, and this can help you to configure your own play accordingly.

In my example, Fred had a 28% VP$IP, and this means that he was willingly paying to see almost 3 flops in 10 hands. Your typical rock will probably have a VP$IP of less than 10%.

..as simple as that!! .Thank-you for the detailed explanation.  This kind of data I presume is through such things as Poker Tracker etc?..(Last question - promise!)

[kinboshi]

If a person puts money in the pot that is not mandatory through the blinds, they are volunterring... this would include the small blind player if he called up to the big blind, or even the big blind player if he called a raise.   Basically if you put chips into the pot after the blinds are posted, you have volunteered and that hand will increase your VP$IP percentage.

Clearly someone who has a higher VP$IP %age than someone else is paying to see more pots and can be deemed as a looser player than the one who has a very low VP$IP. From that you can determine that the player with the higher %age has a much wider range of starting hands, and this can help you to configure your own play accordingly.

In my example, Fred had a 28% VP$IP, and this means that he was willingly paying to see almost 3 flops in 10 hands. Your typical rock will probably have a VP$IP of less than 10%.

Remembering to adjust your parameters according to if it"s a full ring table or not, a six-max for example.

[AMRN]

..as simple as that!! .Thank-you for the detailed explanation.  This kind of data I presume is through such things as Poker Tracker etc?..(Last question - promise!)

yeah Poker Tracker will do it for you...