Author Topic: Jacks or Queens after a single raise  (Read 10433 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

RioRodent

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1147
  • https://photos.app.goo.gl/VFDZrGk6jgyCUzRB2
Re: Jacks or Queens after a single raise
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2008, 21:47:52 PM »

Your in late position or the blinds, .....


I"m afraid the the opening few words make it impossible to give any sort of answer, quite apart from every other reason others have stated.

"Late position" and "the blinds" call for totally different approaches, as do JJ and QQ.

Just too ambiguos a topic for any stategy to cover.

BTW, insta-fold JJ from any position at any stage of the tourney! :)
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.

GiMac

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 916
Re: Jacks or Queens after a single raise
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2008, 13:19:03 PM »


tbh there is a MASSIVE difference between JJ and QQ, so I would probably play both differently. JJ I treat like others have said like a medium pair. QQ on the other hand is a premium hand in my book, after all only two hands actually beating it pre flop and only coin flipping with one hand!!! You cant possibly play Jacks and Queens the same way.  ::)


Agree with you here but it"s still the same concept. Do you want all your chips in pre flop with QQ or would you rather flat call and see if any overs come on the flop?

If there are no over cards then there"s no coin flip out there just the possibility of over pairs or the lucky trips.

I"d be interested to know the odds against seeing overcards with JJ or QQ. What"s the difference? and is it a big enough difference to make JJ a middle pair and QQ a premium hand?

PS. No matter what the odds are I still agree. I would be much happier pushing with QQ than JJ. Not trying to create an argument, just curious


I"m not necessarily advocating a push with either hand, but we are only facing a standard raise of 3xBB!!! If we flat call at any stage of tournament, we are inviting those still to act to call also, thereby devaluing our hand further. TBH I"m re-raising with either hand here, not only to see where we are, but also to try and get heads up. If the original raiser then pushes, then we have to evaluate the situation with regards, where we are in tournament, stack sizes etc etc, as others have said.

Flat calling here is not really a good play, because you cant know what you are up against, and as said above you are inviting those behind to call and you have less chance of taking pot down.

Swinebag

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4033
Re: Jacks or Queens after a single raise
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2008, 14:32:51 PM »


Your in late position or the blinds, .....


I"m afraid the the opening few words make it impossible to give any sort of answer, quite apart from every other reason others have stated.

"Late position" and "the blinds" call for totally different approaches, as do JJ and QQ.

Just too ambiguos a topic for any stategy to cover.

BTW, insta-fold JJ from any position at any stage of any tourney! :)


FYP
Quote from: Chipaccrual
Rob, you are a genius.
Quote from: jacklevel06
You are a genius Rob  :D

REvans84

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: Jacks or Queens after a single raise
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2008, 16:30:14 PM »
To answer your question generally.
Your saying if your middle stacked and the original raiser has you covered and you suspect the blinds will fold.

To me it depends if I have leverage or not.
On the button I would rather call with Jacks and Queens.
I"m happy to do that and trust my post flop play. And if overcards do come down and your opponent bets I can get away from the hand if it is a very unfavourable flop without denting my stack.
If there just raising with Ax or connecting cards or a small pair and you re-raise your giving away the strength of your hand and they might fold and you might not get maximum profit out of the hand.

If im in the blinds and I have got leverage Im raising him 3-4 times his bet. I would be happy to take the hand down there and then out of position.

If I dont have leverage, (M less than 20 or 30BB im pushing with both hands on the button or in the blinds.)

But like others have said totally depends on all the other things aswel like blinds when are they going up next, stack sizes, bubble time, is the raiser aggressive etc.. etc...


AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Re: Jacks or Queens after a single raise
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2008, 18:25:38 PM »
Other variables to consider are how far we are from the money, and whether the raises is a serial raiser who has already shown that he can fold. If he is a dead tight rock, then chances are your QQ/JJ may already be dead.

There is little point calling here and seeing what happens on the flop.... say the flop comes 10 hi and you have JJ.... original raises bets an amount which if you call would commit you, therefore it"s now all or nothing. Do you fold? If so, what flop were you hoping for?  If the board comes with over cards, and he bets, you have little room to play - all in or fold.  If he checks and you bet, you are probably going to end up committing yourself to the pot.....

..... so, back to preflop, given all the scenarios above, I"m re-raising all in and hoping to get away with a small take down.... or to be ahead of a lower pair or AK.

This would all change if I was a stacked a little more deeply than just plain "medium".  If I have sufficient chips to be able to raise/fold after the flop, then I"m flat calling preflop and going for a ride on the flop.