Live deepstack - Queens in early 3bet pot

[deanp27]

right ok i can see this is a difficult one.

one thing to remember is that you aren"t closing the action if you call, this is important.

My thoughts at the time were:

I know their ranges could be fairly wide at this point. Although not sure seat 4 had ability to 3bet with air. only 20 minutes in I can"t put too much weight to observations and i have to assume that they aren"t complete donks.
I don"t want to get QQ in for 200bigs preflop as i am likely crushed if i do.
If i 4bet i fold out all dominated hands and only AK comes along (maybe), so basically i will be 4betting to take the pot down.
I"d hate to 4bet/fold with QQ against anyone because it basically turns my hand into a bluff.

Therefore i was unsure, i flatted for 600 and trusted i could play from there. i figured 3 ways that the aggressor was less likely to barrel unmade hands and i could use position well. Plus my hand is slightly under-repped (to people who maybe don"t know better).

However, seat 2 proceeded to make it 2700 to go.....and original 3bettor folded...... my move?

[Marty719]

Curse urself 4not making it 1800

Well ur clearly not flatting!  I think u prob have to lay it down - I know most ppl will say get it in against this guys image - but we just havent cn Enough at this stage to know he will risk 25%+ of his stck without a monster!!  

I really like his bet-size btw!!  Takes flatting away as an option and gets ppl to shove/fold.  He cud b a donk - or he cud b sum1 tht understands his image v well and makes it 2700 so it appears ppl have fold equity against him and may shove a slightly wider range than usual.

[Swinebag]

you have to give him credit for a better hand here. Fold and be grateful it only cost you 600.
You need a more solid read to play this guy for stacks, this early.

I agree that his bet size is excellent

[deanp27]

i actually think his bet size is a bit on the large side (although i don"t know what he held as i folded). I was never calling here.

i reflected on this hand alot, i still think he was possibly weak-ish vs my queens and could have done this with JJ/AK. However he has done this with a 3bettor still to act and i have to credit him for a huge hand really. It was hard to really get a read on him so early.

He went on to win the comp and actually knocked me out (i squeezed 78s later on when he and the other guy both entered pot again, he had aces this time obv and i bricked my pair&flush draw on flop).

yes i guess i should be grateful for only losing 600 but on reflection i think i should probably open muck every hand bar aces and kings here preflop as the downsides or playing other hands vs their ranges are huge compared to the upsides. If i 4bet i really want a fold at this stage(so i might as well not have QQ) as i doubt i get action from JJ etc. If i call i have no real idea where i am and am open to being 4betted (as well as turning my hand range sort of face up).

or maybe i am just turning into a huge nit in my old age.

[Marty719]

i actually think his bet size is a bit on the large side (although i don"t know what he held as i folded). I was never calling here.

His bet-size has to b on the large-side here.  He wants to take flatting 100% out of the question and leave it open for ppl to just spaz-shove here so he can snap it off.  It means other players have to put it in or fold.  Also gives the impression that there is still some f/e.

Edit:  Or Im giving him wayyyy too much credit!!

[Cyntaf]

As You say so early/ deep stacked/ little info. You would have to take into account that seat 4 has woken up with a hand and trying to extract max from seat 2. Also seat 2 appearing to be somewhat manic, may also just have the hand this time. So before any post flop (pre) analysis, do you want to get involved at all here. Hard to let your ladies go I know, but i would have to be playing here before i commited to taking any part at this stage. AA defo 4bet, KK > also at least see if 2 or 4 refires. Maybe flat JJ/hope for call by 2/fold to any re>. Again i would have to be there myself, it"s no way absolute as to how i would act/react. aLL OTHERS I THINK ARE IN THE MUCK B4 IT GETS TO ME.

[Cyntaf]

Oh dear, read all thread b4 posting
Still, this was my immediate take on the situation. BTW under - repped? as in under represented by just flatting? forgive my inexperience.
If you had gone onto > 1800, what now when he re>"s to say 3600?  I Think you still have to let go, so yeah agreed cost you 600 only. Could you possibly put him super Agg and push? Think not and you already stated not wanting to put 200 BB"s in pre, so that combined with the fact he won, i refer back to my original post above. Easily said after the event but yeah, i fold pre. Come on Broomcorns uncle or auntie, whatever