Cash Tour 2012

[Des]

been away for a long weekend so missed the start of this thread.
firstly i wouldnt favour a cash tour on principle that APAT is an amatuer organisation however my biggest gripe is that it definitely shouldnt start at brighton but only at events thatt are officially 2012 events.
the reasoning for this comes from a conversation that i had with des and a handful of very regular APATERs at manchester.
a side event for PLO was advertised for manchester on which basis people booked 2-3 nights accomodation, time off work etc. i knew of lots of people expecting the omaha game however due to a logistic error it was cancelled. after a discussion with des and the previously mentioned APATERs we were told nothing can be done however not to worry - this wont happen again in brighton. no worries time booked off work, train booked as well as accomodation and now no OMAHA again.
personally i think it is bad form to suggest this change for brighton and should be suggested for future events that people havent made financial sacrifices based on previously advertised itineries.

With respect to the above, I don"t think a Side Event was advertised &/or confirmed for Brighton.

I know Tighty was going to try to get something arranged (I haven"t bothered to read the whole of that thread again to double check) but, as I said, nothing was AFAIK ever confirmed....so perhaps booking on that basis was premature.

EDIT...Apologies...something was confirmed...

Also is there a PLO Event?

We will be looking to discuss an event for the Sunday with the Rendezvous, so confirmation to follow.  However, might test a different format, investigating now.

At the moment a £25 PLO is booked in, confirmed with the venue. Even if this changes (APATs choice) there will definitely be a side event on Day 2

Surely this handles that one? It says there will be a side event, just unconfirmed as to what it will be, Des even said they were looking at trying something different...

sounds like an angle shoot to me stu.............i based my comments on a conversation between myself, des, cularge, minttrav and a few others in manchester after we were infomed only on saturday evening that the omaha had been cancelled even though we had been lead to believe different. deja-vu

Mark - the conversation in Brighton was around the fact that APAT had advertised a specific side event for Manchester and then not put it on, which I apologised for.  I said we would look to avoid doing this in future, which we will.  However I did not promise that we would be running a PLO in Brighton.  as it transpires, we will be testing this new cash tournament format in Brighton and as per the above posts, we suggested from the outset that we were planning to test something new.  We have very few opportunities to test formats and this definitely needs to be ran prior to any launch being considered for 2012. 

Des

I need to clarify this point.

When we were discussion the PLO in Manchester, or lack of it, you did indeed apologise, but you also said, very clearly that there would be a PLO in Brighton as "previously advertised".  It was a few minutes after this that the post was removed from the Brighton thread which stated this.

I too enjoy PLO and am also very disappointed to be let down again.

I don"t organise individual events Richard, Tighty does.  My comments in Manchester were that a) like you and Mark I wasn"t happy that an advertised side event didn"t occur, but even I wasn"t aware that it had been advertised some weeks prior and b) we would look to ensure this wouldn"t occur again. 

I don"t know what post you are suggesting has been deleted, but we have not advertised a PLO event for Brighton.  Rich Prew clarified that Brighton could run one if we wanted, but we have chosen to use that slot for a trial event.  This was done for strategic reasons, not to disappoint people.  Clearly we have ended up disappointing some members and that is regretable, but my responsibility to the membership as a whole is to continue to develop APAT so that it can serve you in the way we have over the past five years.  This is not a market to stand still in.

You might recall that you and I had a discussion, as I also had separately with Mark and others, several weeks ago with regards the final two events of the season; which were either expensive or overseas.  APAT worked to address the schedule for those last two events in line with our members wishes, but this needs to be a two way street at times.  

[AAroddersAA]

Sort of related to this thread

What are the chances of arranging an "APAT - the cash game" at maybe the WCOAP. A standard cash game with some of the cash players from APAT playing against each other in a 50/£1 (under normal DTD rules) game would be good. We could have standard rake so it does not cost DTD anything and it"s not like they are going to be short on tables.

It would probably have to be NLHE (and maybe PLO) as this would make DTD the most money and players could make a donation to APAT at the end of their session if they wish (most players who win probably would). This would potentially make money for APAT and DTD whilst also giving APAT the cash game we have wanted for quite a while and also keeps the sharks away from our table (this might be a sticking point for DTD of course).

I would definitely come to DTD for this.

I think something related to cash at the WCOAP is a great idea.  How do you suggest we allocate those nine seats though?  I"m sure a lot of players would want to participate in something like this.

Working at and watching the Big game at DTD in the summer there were a list of 40-50 players that played the game over 48 hours

It might be possible for a WCOAP cash game to construct a list of interested players, start a game with names chosen at random at a point in time and run it whenever DTD is open for a period of 48-72 hours with players leaving as they please and going to the bottom of the waiting list if they want to go back on later

If this can be done then lets do it.

I would suggest (and it is just a suggestion - may well not be that good of one) that some preference should be given to those who have contributed to threads in The Academy, as they would be like a measuring stick for other players to measure themselves against? I know this would push some (myself included) down the list but it would make it the most interesting table for people to watch on the stream. Also if it runs for 2 or 3 days everybody will get a chance anyway. I would love to clash with some of them on the cash tables. Oh the bragging rights out drawing Noble will bring :-), speaking of which I also really need a rematch with Delboy :-)

[mporter123]

I would suggest (and it is just a suggestion - may well not be that good of one) that some preference should be given to those who have contributed to threads in The Academy, as they would be like a measuring stick for other players to measure themselves against? I know this would push some (myself included) down the list but it would make it the most interesting table for people to watch on the stream. Also if it runs for 2 or 3 days everybody will get a chance anyway. I would love to clash with some of them on the cash tables. Oh the bragging rights out drawing Noble will bring :-), speaking of which I also really need a rematch with Delboy :-)

Would make for an incred live stream with a deep stacked cash table of APAT reg"s.

[TightEnd]

Let me clarify the Manchester situation

I made a cock up with regard to the side event. I didn"t confirm it with the venue in the weeks before, having booked it in at outset. The venue didn"t confirm it with me either, but its my responsibility. In addition a player briefing went out ten days before Manchester with no mention of a side event. No one queried it at that point, so a combination of these things meant it slipped through the net

Embarrassing, but mistakes happen

In Manchester I spoke to the venue who confirmed they didn"t have the staff to put on a dealer dealt side event (unsurprisingly as I hadn"t confirmed it), and they"d prefer to run their two Sunday events.

They had received a few last minute phone calls from locals who had seen mention of it on this thread in the OP

http://www.apat.com/forum/index.php?topic=9935.0

Staff fielding phone calls were getting confused and I agreed to remove mention of the Omaha

You will note that the OP still contains mention of a PLO side at Brighton. I will edit this after Christmas, but as I don"t want to be accused of another angle shoot, perhaps I won"t.

No post has been deleted. Edited, but not deleted

At the time of speaking to the very small number of people in Manchester who queried the absence of an Omaha (Curlarge, jayteejack, perhaps two others) I did indeed confirm that an Omaha was planned for Brighton. At the time it was, and there were no discussions about trialling a cash Tour in Brighton until ten days ago

At that point we decided to switch across for reasons that have been outlined

I"m pretty miffed to a) be accused of an angle shoot and b) that jayteejack has despite requests for clarifcation from Des and myself not provided it, despite being on the forum today

I made a mistake, but I don"t like having my integrity questioned

[duke3016]

I made a mistake, but I don"t like having my integrity questioned

I would be extremely surprised, shocked even, if anyone on this forum deliberately questioned your integrity. Making plans based on an undertaking subsequently changed can be frustrating and inconvenient. Having an opinion is grand, to be encouraged actually. But there are better ways of expressing your disappointment and getting your point across than posting inflammatory remarks on an open forum. My own humble opinion of course.

[Santino67]

Just going through the thread suggests to me that many members of the forum are in disagreement over this so why don"t we (APAT) have some kind of vote on it? One member, one vote. I remember the disappointment of Manchester too as I"d thought a PLO would be taking place on the Sunday but that"s now history, so let"s focus on Brighton and beyond. I won"t lose sleep over which side event is organised, but do believe it should be in the interests of the majority.

[Paulie_D]

Just going through the thread suggests to me that many members of the forum are in disagreement over this so why don"t we (APAT) have some kind of vote on it? One member, one vote. I remember the disappointment of Manchester too as I"d thought a PLO would be taking place on the Sunday but that"s now history, so let"s focus on Brighton and beyond. I won"t lose sleep over which side event is organised, but do believe it should be in the interests of the majority.

Nice idea but lets just accept that this IS going to happen in Brighton and judge its success after the event.

Des has already said (I think) that this won"t replace the Side Events and I"m happy with that.

[SirPercival]

Just going through the thread suggests to me that many members of the forum are in disagreement over this so why don"t we (APAT) have some kind of vote on it? One member, one vote. I remember the disappointment of Manchester too as I"d thought a PLO would be taking place on the Sunday but that"s now history, so let"s focus on Brighton and beyond. I won"t lose sleep over which side event is organised, but do believe it should be in the interests of the majority.

Nice idea but lets just accept that this IS going to happen in Brighton and judge its success after the event.

Des has already said (I think) that this won"t replace the Side Events and I"m happy with that.

why not let people vote with their feet/chips/money !!

Get a entry list going and see how many sign up. Not sure how many you need to test the proposal but I suspect it would need 30+.

Currently I am not planning on being there but will give it a go if I change plans.

[MintTrav]

I remember the conversation in Manchester, though I was more a witness than a participant. Not a very good witness, however, as I can"t actually remember what Des said, apart from him apologising re Manchester. Sorry, I know that"s not much help but, as my name has been mentioned, I thought I"d better say rather than have people wondering why I"m not saying.

[AMRN]

This is silly. Why all the bitching and back-biting? The main APAT event will go ahead, and that is the most important part of the schedule... the side events are additional to the main tour and do not detract from what APAT offers.   This thread is becoming unnecessarily personal and inappropriate in places.

[SirPercival]

This is silly. Why all the bitching and back-biting? The main APAT event will go ahead, and that is the most important part of the schedule... the side events are additional to the main tour and do not detract from what APAT offers.   This thread is becoming unnecessarily personal and inappropriate in places.

^^^this

[Des]

This is silly. Why all the bitching and back-biting? The main APAT event will go ahead, and that is the most important part of the schedule... the side events are additional to the main tour and do not detract from what APAT offers.   This thread is becoming unnecessarily personal and inappropriate in places.

Thanks Steve.

All of that"s been sorted through a series of phone calls and pm"s last night and today.  All done and dusted in a properly adult fashion.  There"s hope for us all yet

[kinboshi]

This is silly. Why all the bitching and back-biting? The main APAT event will go ahead, and that is the most important part of the schedule... the side events are additional to the main tour and do not detract from what APAT offers.   This thread is becoming unnecessarily personal and inappropriate in places.

Who asked you anyway, baldie?

[Honeybadg]

Sort of related to this thread

What are the chances of arranging an "APAT - the cash game" at maybe the WCOAP. A standard cash game with some of the cash players from APAT playing against each other in a 50/£1 (under normal DTD rules) game would be good. We could have standard rake so it does not cost DTD anything and it"s not like they are going to be short on tables.

It would probably have to be NLHE (and maybe PLO) as this would make DTD the most money and players could make a donation to APAT at the end of their session if they wish (most players who win probably would). This would potentially make money for APAT and DTD whilst also giving APAT the cash game we have wanted for quite a while and also keeps the sharks away from our table (this might be a sticking point for DTD of course).

I would definitely come to DTD for this.

I think something related to cash at the WCOAP is a great idea.  How do you suggest we allocate those nine seats though?  I"m sure a lot of players would want to participate in something like this.

Working at and watching the Big game at DTD in the summer there were a list of 40-50 players that played the game over 48 hours

It might be possible for a WCOAP cash game to construct a list of interested players, start a game with names chosen at random at a point in time and run it whenever DTD is open for a period of 48-72 hours with players leaving as they please and going to the bottom of the waiting list if they want to go back on later

This would be a fantastic addition to the WCOAP schedule ...

L

[Delboy]

Sort of related to this thread

What are the chances of arranging an "APAT - the cash game" at maybe the WCOAP. A standard cash game with some of the cash players from APAT playing against each other in a 50/£1 (under normal DTD rules) game would be good. We could have standard rake so it does not cost DTD anything and it"s not like they are going to be short on tables.

It would probably have to be NLHE (and maybe PLO) as this would make DTD the most money and players could make a donation to APAT at the end of their session if they wish (most players who win probably would). This would potentially make money for APAT and DTD whilst also giving APAT the cash game we have wanted for quite a while and also keeps the sharks away from our table (this might be a sticking point for DTD of course).

I would definitely come to DTD for this.

I think something related to cash at the WCOAP is a great idea.  How do you suggest we allocate those nine seats though?  I"m sure a lot of players would want to participate in something like this.

Working at and watching the Big game at DTD in the summer there were a list of 40-50 players that played the game over 48 hours

It might be possible for a WCOAP cash game to construct a list of interested players, start a game with names chosen at random at a point in time and run it whenever DTD is open for a period of 48-72 hours with players leaving as they please and going to the bottom of the waiting list if they want to go back on later

If this can be done then lets do it.

I would suggest (and it is just a suggestion - may well not be that good of one) that some preference should be given to those who have contributed to threads in The Academy, as they would be like a measuring stick for other players to measure themselves against? I know this would push some (myself included) down the list but it would make it the most interesting table for people to watch on the stream. Also if it runs for 2 or 3 days everybody will get a chance anyway. I would love to clash with some of them on the cash tables. Oh the bragging rights out drawing Noble will bring :-), speaking of which I also really need a rematch with Delboy :-)

MAKE IT SO!