Stars hand history 100$ freezeout

[George2Loose]

OK I have not been particularly active neither has the big blind- how do u proceed considering flop texture?

PokerStars Game #14466693028: Tournament #72648552, $100+$9 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2008/01/10 - 20:08:40 (ET)
Table "72648552 1" 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: eidur888 (6204 in chips)
Seat 2: J9SUITED (4856 in chips)
Seat 3: THECHISELER1 (4630 in chips)
Seat 4: xfactor78 (5835 in chips)
Seat 5: SchnelliHH (6250 in chips)
Seat 6: kgoulé (3506 in chips)
Seat 7: THE PISTOL (6605 in chips)
Seat 8: matt674 (2050 in chips)
Seat 9: George2Loose (3405 in chips)
xfactor78: posts small blind 75
SchnelliHH: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to George2Loose [ ]
kgoulé: folds
THE PISTOL: folds
matt674: calls 150
George2Loose: raises 450 to 600
eidur888: folds
J9SUITED: folds
THECHISELER1: folds
xfactor78: folds
SchnelliHH: calls 450
matt674: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
SchnelliHH: checks
George2Loose:

[UKChamp]

A full pot bet looks weak to me and commits too many chips to the pot, I would probably bet around 2/3 the pot and see what response I get.

Whilst this isnt too bad a flop for JJ, hands like two overcards with a heart would have a slight edge at this point and are unlikely to fold.

If he had a preflop hand of strength (overpair to urs) maybe he would have led out to protect? With that flop he cant be sure you are going to bet, so would trying a check raise here be the right play with anything less than a monster? At this point I probably see the check as weak.

[George2Loose]

The all heart flop without the poses a big problem for me. I really wasn"t sure what to do:

If I bet say 1/2 pot and get reraised all in I"m like to be up against a flush draw and racing for my chips if he has two overs say KQhh

If I bet 2/3 pot or more I have to call a shove no?

If I check I"m allowing a free card to come off and if a heart comes off I"m certainly getting rid of my hand if he bets altho I am keeping the pot small

If I move in I"m only getting called my a hand that beats me?

[UKChamp]

You have to bet something u have the 4th highest preflop hand.
Checking gives no information.
For sure a re-raise makes it a difficult spot but playing scared and not betting for info isnt a way to win.

[George2Loose]

No absoloutely- I had to bet and did. I bet 2/pot and he shoved- now what?

[kinboshi]

You have to bet something u have the 4th highest preflop hand.
Checking gives no information.
For sure a re-raise makes it a difficult spot but playing scared and not betting for info isnt a way to win.

I check.  Let the turn come down.  If it"s a non-heart, you can bet behind a check, and if he"s got the flush-draw, then he no longer has the odds to call (or push).  If he continues to come with you, or re-raises, you can let go of the hand.  You only have a middle pair after all.

[UKChamp]

No absoloutely- I had to bet and did. I bet 2/pot and he shoved- now what?

Give it up.
Ignoring pot odds id still lay it down, too many coin toss situations and not enough your beating considerably.

If you had checked like super chicken daniel you could end up getting tangled up in the hand later on when you have no information and youve only really given your opponent more cards to catch. What about all the overcards to come on the turn that beat your jack? Lets note that as well as the flushes which are obvious there are two open ended straights 45/78 out there too. Its not enough to say go with a none heart. Though I admit these are pretty unlikely out of psoition.

You did the right thing, im convinced. There are many hands that could have called preflop that would fold to your bet. Remember your playing his range not the board, scary as it looks. It was just one of those situations; there to boost the forums and deplete your bankroll!

[Jon MW]

With a preflop raise, any kind of bet post flop and then a fold, you"re not going to be left with too many chips.

I"d have gone all in preflop.

[UKChamp]

But hes already said hes been tight, how will he ever get paid?
Overcards are a cointoss
Overpairs have you way behind
Underpairs which you want calling are unlikly to risk whole stack on middle pair.
I dont see a preflop shove working

But what do i know

[Jon MW]

My feeling is that if you can add 10% to your stack then its a good move.

You could point out that 225 is less than 10% of 3405, however after a raise and a continuation bet then it won"t be that far off what would be left.

i.e. In this position I would be happy to gain the blinds with little risk, rather than risk 800/1000 chips (or more) by playing post flop.

However there is probably a good reason why I don"t often play $100 tournaments

[kinboshi]

No absoloutely- I had to bet and did. I bet 2/pot and he shoved- now what?

Give it up.
Ignoring pot odds id still lay it down, too many coin toss situations and not enough your beating considerably.

If you had checked like super chicken daniel you could end up getting tangled up in the hand later on when you have no information and youve only really given your opponent more cards to catch. What about all the overcards to come on the turn that beat your jack? Lets note that as well as the flushes which are obvious there are two open ended straights 45/78 out there too. Its not enough to say go with a none heart. Though I admit these are pretty unlikely out of psoition.

What information are you after?  You bet and if he"s on a drawing hand (or a hand that"s already ahead of you), then he calls or raises and you"re still there with your medium pair.

You did the right thing, im convinced. There are many hands that could have called preflop that would fold to your bet. Remember your playing his range not the board, scary as it looks. It was just one of those situations; there to boost the forums and deplete your bankroll!

I like the check on the flop for a number of reasons.  It doesn"t give him any information about your hand.  It keeps the pot small, which is good when you have a medium pair, and it lets you make a decision when there"s only one card to come. 

How would you feel if he calls your flop bet?

[UKChamp]

Id feel better when 70% of his preflop range folds to my cont bet!
And a lot better than when I check the flop and see an ace peel off on the turn.

By checking you lose all opportunity to win the hand at that point. Its quite simple, you dont win hands by checking and just because the board has 3 hearts doesnt mean he has one, nor does it mean he has a set or a big draw. But unless you bet out you have no idea.

Yes you may have to fold if raised but his preflop range means that c70% of the time hes going to fold. So betting out is a +EV move.

We wont agree and I am not posting on this hand again. These threads can be quite frsutrating!

[kinboshi]

He doesn"t know what I"ve got either.  That"s the beauty of the check.  It too is a +EV move.

[Swinebag]

We wont agree and I am not posting on this hand again. These threads can be quite frsutrating!

I think thats why George put this on. I think both you and Dan give good convincing arguments

If i"m in a similar situation tomorrow, I"ll be looking at the watch again. 50% check, 50% bet.

Yours fence sittingly

[kinboshi]

It"s actually a fictional situation.

OK I have not been particularly active...

Yeah, right.  Have you been sitting out?