Match Structure

[jjandellis]

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Still a better structure than most stars tourneys....

Really?

I just took a random sample (of, errr 1, the first NLHE I saw in the microtab)

For $4.40 buy in - 10 min levels, but after 2 hours of play (so level 12) the blinds are: 150/300 a40
In this $11 game - 12 min levels - so 2 hours of play (level 10)  the blinds are: 300/600 a50

(I put my working out there because I"m not ruling out that I might have missed something)

That"s quite a difference isn"t it?

I don"t pay too much attention to structure - but I do play a fair bit on stars, this "seemed" a lot quicker than the average non-turbo.

Agree with this. I was playing live cash so not able to devote total attention to tourney (so I could have missed something), but it felt like one minute I had a well above average stack and the next it was shove/fold. Certainly didn"t feel the same as normal stars tourneys and felt very turboish. Was there a level missing or something?

I enjoyed last weeks structure and considered giving up my cash game for it. So glad I didn"t. Disappointed to get a message so late about the structure change too, but maybe that was me not checking emails. Personally think the structure should revert (like u say, not many will multiple FT...plus whats the harm in a late night when u have a nice bink??) or go somewhere in the middle.

Personally if it stays so turboey it kinda puts unwanted pressure on me when playing live, so I"d give it up. Horses for courses though I guess.

[AMRN]

We"ll definitely take a look at this before match 3. APAT didn"t brief any level removals, so we"ll look at that carefully also.  Essentially we can have whatever tweaks that we want so let"s see how the event plays out tonight and take it from there. However do all remember that our online Championship events will be played out monthly on Saturday nights with a 5k stack and 15m blinds, so we will be catering for the true deep stack aficionados also.

I thought the Online Champs events were 10k starting stacks...??

Quote from the relevant thread.... "The event will feature a £30 + £3 buy in and players will start with 10,000 chips on a 15 minute clock"

My mistake, defo they have 10k...

Can"t wait for that one - the iPoker MTT structure has improved so much lately, and 10k/15 will make for a great tourney.     And imo that is the right occasion for a proper deepstack tourney - the 4k/12 structure is fine for the weekly league event.

[jjandellis]

Perhaps the answer would be to use the same structure as the 500 Cap tourneys?

3000 chips, 10 min levels (yup sounds turboey at first) - but with a smoother transition between the levels

[Swinebag]

Perhaps the answer would be to use the same structure as the 500 Cap tourneys?

3000 chips, 10 min levels (yup sounds turboey at first) - but with a smoother transition between the levels

this was the one I meant

[Honeybadg]

Whatever else - great for railing ... finished 15 mins early!

Scotland on fire.

L

[Chipaccrual]

Whatever else - great for railing ... finished 15 mins early!

Scotland on fire.

L

That should never be forgotten, makes a big difference to the feel of the tournament when there"s a decent rail right to the end.

With 454 runners it finished just before 1am, which I think is as late as we"d want it to go.  So, without wanting to start any earlier than 7pm, then I would suggest the 4k and 12 min levels structure is just about right.

[AMRN]

Whatever else - great for railing ... finished 15 mins early!

Scotland on fire.

L

That should never be forgotten, makes a big difference to the feel of the tournament when there"s a decent rail right to the end.

With 454 runners it finished just before 1am, which I think is as late as we"d want it to go.  So, without wanting to start any earlier than 7pm, then I would suggest the 4k and 12 min levels structure is just about right.

Echo that.   Saw a lot of people moaning early on that it was too turbo.... but these were generally people that were out already - suspect most of those would not moan if they were on the right side of those early flips.  For a weekly $11 league tournament, it was spot on, imo.   There will always be a pinch point in a tournament - in this one, the pinch seemed to be around 75 minutes.... people will just have to learn from that and adjust so that they are not reduced to shove/fold at that point.  Just cos we can"t nit it up for three hours before going for a flip doesn"t mean the structure is wrong or bad.

[Jon MW]

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Echo that.   Saw a lot of people moaning early on that it was too turbo.... but these were generally people that were out already - suspect most of those would not moan if they were on the right side of those early flips.  For a weekly $11 league tournament, it was spot on, imo.   There will always be a pinch point in a tournament - in this one, the pinch seemed to be around 75 minutes.... people will just have to learn from that and adjust so that they are not reduced to shove/fold at that point.  Just cos we can"t nit it up for three hours before going for a flip doesn"t mean the structure is wrong or bad.

No I think the fact that the average stack was around 20 bb - and hence shove/fold mode - for most of the tournament is what makes it bad.

I look at it the other way around - I"m happy to play the occasional turbo tournament, but if I"m going to invest money week in week out to a league then I"d want it to be a good enough structure that you can afford to play creatively and recover if it doesn"t pan out (like week 1).

I don"t know how many people are results orientated in their analysis of structure - but there are plenty of statistics to work out what"s good and what isn"t, so they don"t have to be.

[Chipaccrual]

...

Echo that.   Saw a lot of people moaning early on that it was too turbo.... but these were generally people that were out already - suspect most of those would not moan if they were on the right side of those early flips.  For a weekly $11 league tournament, it was spot on, imo.   There will always be a pinch point in a tournament - in this one, the pinch seemed to be around 75 minutes.... people will just have to learn from that and adjust so that they are not reduced to shove/fold at that point.  Just cos we can"t nit it up for three hours before going for a flip doesn"t mean the structure is wrong or bad.

No I think the fact that the average stack was around 20 bb - and hence shove/fold mode - for most of the tournament is what makes it bad.

I look at it the other way around - I"m happy to play the occasional turbo tournament, but if I"m going to invest money week in week out to a league then I"d want it to be a good enough structure that you can afford to play creatively and recover if it doesn"t pan out (like week 1).

I don"t know how many people are results orientated in their analysis of structure - but there are plenty of statistics to work out what"s good and what isn"t, so they don"t have to be.

That is a ridiculous comment to make.  How is this structure anything like a turbo tournament.  Stars turbos have 5 minute levels.

Perhaps those players that are "results orientated" in the analysis of structure and choice of tournaments might be taking this slightly more seriously than others.

I agree with you that it is a decent commitment with it being a 15 week league, and to play them all sees you shell out $165 in total, but I"m not quite sure what sort of structure people want for their money ?

There has got to be a balance here, and the best APAT can do is find a balance that ticks as many boxes for as many members as possible.  Clearly a difficult task, but achievable.  

[PHIL_TC]

I assume all those complaining are out.

I"ll blame myself or the dealer for my exit.

The structure was spot on for a $11 team game

+1

I"d want it to be a good enough structure that you can afford to play creatively and recover if it doesn"t pan out (like week 1).

I lost pretty much half my stack first orbit with AK, managed to recover and end up 37th... run better Jon x

[Sugar_Free]

There will always be a pinch point in a tournament - in this one, the pinch seemed to be around 75 minutes

But if you take advantage of the late registration then this comes after 15 minutes. Surely not what an APAT tournament should come across as, especially for new recruits.

[AMRN]

There will always be a pinch point in a tournament - in this one, the pinch seemed to be around 75 minutes

But if you take advantage of the late registration then this comes after 15 minutes. Surely not what an APAT tournament should come across as, especially for new recruits.

Sorry, but defining a structure to allow those that join at the end of the late reg period is a flawed approach. If you late reg, you have to accept that you will be short stacked very early.  If you join at the start, you have a 200xBB stack!

[Honeybadg]

Whatever else - great for railing ... finished 15 mins early!

Scotland on fire.

L

That should never be forgotten, makes a big difference to the feel of the tournament when there"s a decent rail right to the end.

With 454 runners it finished just before 1am, which I think is as late as we"d want it to go.  So, without wanting to start any earlier than 7pm, then I would suggest the 4k and 12 min levels structure is just about right.

It was "just about right" - just 5k and 12 mins would only last about 20 minutes longer - but delay the pinch point.

I watched it all - out in about 97th having lost two races - no big deal there - I was lucky earlier.

It felt that there were two pinch points one about 75-90 mins in and one about 3 hours in - most of the exits were pretty standard I"ve got a good hand shove vs I have a good hand call ... flip a coin ... felt a bit too flippy for me ...

Right result though!

[dwh103]

The structure MUST be changed again.

Week 1 was far too slow, took forever etc etc

Week 2 was too quick, flipaments etc etc.

And in both weeks Scotland scored big points. Simply must not be allowed to happen again...CHANGE IT!

[siberiankhatru]

This is a $11 weekly tournament, for it to go on till 3am is a no go for me and I would assume also for a lot of people who have to work on Monday morning. Also support on the rail is important within the team aspect of the game.

The current structure is perfect for a reasonable amount of play and to finish at a reasonable time