QQ in BB

[pokerpops]

 
Casino League Final £0+£10+£10 - £2,000 added. 60 runners

Level 4 150/300



Three limpers to my BB I raise QQ to 1050
Two callers inc SB

Stacks
MP - 7k. He"s been at the table from the start. Passive, called two streets and folded river a few times...
SB - 15k. Youngish female, joined the game late and sat down with the full 13k stack. No reads really other than she"s a regular...

Me - 18k. I"m probably the most active player on the table

Flop 764hh
sb checks

WWYD?

[Paulie_D]

I would have raised more pre-flop.

As played, pot is roughly 3400, I"m leading out for 2700.

[PHIL_TC]

Raised more pre.

On a wet flop like this I"m slowing the feck down... limp callers ranges all over.

Im check calling the flop and see what the turn brings x

[deanp27]

1200 pre, as played checking is a disaster. Bet 1700 and snap off the 7k guy. If lady checkraises I would consider folding.

[PHIL_TC]

checking is a disaster

I don"t post in the academy often, so would be interested to know why checking here is a disaster... in my experience a flop like that is hitting a typical limp / callers range? Suited connectors, low pocket pair set mining etc?

[Jon MW]

checking is a disaster

I don"t post in the academy often, so would be interested to know why checking here is a disaster... in my experience a flop like that is hitting a typical limp / callers range? Suited connectors, low pocket pair set mining etc?

So if they bet out do you assume you"re behind and fold?

[PHIL_TC]

checking is a disaster

I don"t post in the academy often, so would be interested to know why checking here is a disaster... in my experience a flop like that is hitting a typical limp / callers range? Suited connectors, low pocket pair set mining etc?

So if they bet out do you assume you"re behind and fold?

No.... as I said...

On a wet flop like this I"m slowing the feck down... limp callers ranges all over.

Im check calling the flop and see what the turn brings x

Just wondering exactly what range you"re putting the limp callers on? x

[deanp27]

Because it might hit one of them doesn"t mean we can"t bet our hand for value vs a whole host of smaller pocket pairs, one pair hands and draws. It"s a fairly narrow range that beats us and we still in great shape vs some of our opponents value hands.

If you are check/calling, you might as well take the lead and bet yourself. In fact I"d prefer to check fold than check/call.

[Jon MW]

Also if you check call on the flop, they check back after you on the turn - you"ve just given anyone you"re beating every chance to fairly cheaply outdraw you on the river.

EDIT: and it"s a pretty wide range.
OP said the first bettor is passive - so he might have a fairly wide range, not necessarily the expected limp call range.
The SB made up the blind because it was cheap then called the reraise because the original limper called and she had good odds.

i.e. the original limper might have a much better hand than you might expect and the sb might have a much worse one.

[pokerpops]

1200 pre, as played checking is a disaster. Bet 1700 and snap off the 7k guy. If lady checkraises I would consider folding.

I"m not disagreeing, but what do we gain by making it 1200 rather than 1050?

[PHIL_TC]

So we lead out on the flop... onto an extremely wet flop.

We"ve basically broadcast our hand range pre with the raise.

You don"t think a decent player would re-raise you on that flop? Are you prepared to get it all in (looking at stack sizes) on that flop to a re-raise or are you raise / folding?

Personally I think you"re wondering into a world of pain leading out. Just my opinion x

[deanp27]

1200 pre, as played checking is a disaster. Bet 1700 and snap off the 7k guy. If lady checkraises I would consider folding.

I"m not disagreeing, but what do we gain by making it 1200 rather than 1050?

150 more chips per player lol

It"s just slightly bigger enough to discourage 3/4 action OOP. Some may go bigger, like 1500 but I tend to keep my sizings in general smaller than some live players.

[TheSnapper]

I don"t post in the academy often, so would be interested to know why checking here is a disaster... in my experience a flop like that is hitting a typical limp / callers range? Suited connectors, low pocket pair set mining etc?

Versus a limping range of ..

TT-22,AJo-ATo,KQo-KTo,QJo,JTo,AJs-A2s,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s,      that's a total of  210 combo's

economically weighted towards suited hands and doesn't account for unsuited connectors.

We are in bad shape versus...

44,66,77          
sets       9   combo's
76            
two pair   3   combo's

6% of that limping range.

We get value from...

88,99,TT         
overpair   18 combo's    
A7,87            
Top pair   6   combo's
A6,56            
Mid Pair   6   combo's
22,33,55,45,A4      
Weak pair   24 combo's   
Various hh holdings          
flushdraw   17 combo's
A5,98,            
oesd      8   combo's

38% of that limping range.

So we should bet for value and rely on our reads to make a decision if we are raised. I suspect bet / folding is likely to lose less than check / calling.

Betting the flop for 1700 - 1900 targets the weaker end of their range whereas a closer to potsize bet is more likely to fold out those weaker hands.

[PHIL_TC]

Thanks Brendan was hoping you"d post something like that.. presuming this is heads up? What about a 3-way pot?

Be interesting to see Dave"s read and how it played out anyway.. I"ve still got a bad feeling x

[deanp27]

By nature, I don"t think this would be posted if David had bet the flop and all folded.

Thanks Brendan, you have put what I was trying to say much more eloquently than I could. Although my excuse is that I am at work on my iPhone.