AA in late position early on

[Waz1892]

What did i do wrong?

Level 1 hand 4.  Already doubled up with flopped flush.  Only $1 buy in, so please lower your normal expectations!

folded to mid position 1 limper.  I have AA and raise 4x to 80.  SB calls and limper calls.

Flop -  jh qd

SB checks..limper bets 80.. i re-raise 240.. sb folds... limer re-raises anoth er 80 to 320.  I go All in, he insta calls.

he has 2 pair qj..no help and back wher i started.

was my 4x enough...I dont think he should have called with qj with a raise and call before him?

when he raised my 240 bet, i thought u must have aq kq..was aware of qj..but again thinking he"d not call 2 bets before with qj.

game over from then....

your views?  if enough info provided.

[RioRodent]

Well first off a 4x BB raise in a $1 tournament won"t get rid of any one with 2 "pretty cards", another 60 chips doesn"t make much of hole in 1500. With SB calling I"m suprised the BB didn"t call with any 2.

Limper"s flop bet of 80, into a 250 pot, with top 2 pr is just awful with potential flush and straight draws on board... in fact, initally, it looks like a bet to protect a draw!

Then there appears to be something wrong with your numbers... if you raised to 240 (+160), then his re-raise would have to be at least another 160, to 400.

Assuming he made a min re-raise, again not good IMO, this is not the action of someone on a draw... more likely, someone who has (or thinks they have) a monster and it has "re-raise me please" written all over it.

In this type of tourney his range of starting is hands is huge... any 2 cards that add up to 20 or 21, any suited A and any low to mid pair... higher pairs particularly & are unlikey as he didn"t raise PF, AJ and AQ are unlikely, since you have two As... we don"t know if you have the , but Ahxh is unlikely due to his re-re-raise.

55 is definitely a possibility, and if he is confident he has the best hand then QJ is a definite possibility. Bearing in mind that with your raise PF and re-raise on the flop, he must consider the possibility that you have AA or KK.

I believe it is not too hard to lay down the AA in this situation... having said that you have already doubled up so you are not putting your tourney and that whole $1 at risk, so I probably push also!  

It is easier look objectively after the event.

So, that"s all  I have to say about that.



PS: I can"t believe I"ve sat and wrote all that in response to a thinly veiled bad beat story!!!  

I must go and lay down.

[Waz1892]

thank-you Rio for the time you have taken to reply and your analysis.  Apologies for the error in the numbers.

Always good to learn from better players such as yourself, as it must say something that your reply to my quetion was longer than my initial thought s on the hand, and I was asking the questions of myslef, the hand and how it was played.!!

Clearly I have alot still too learn, as I know only to well.

I"ll keep to the low $1 tournaments for now. Iit seemed your offended that I even bothered to ask a question in such a lowly buy in!  

[RioRodent]

... Iit seemed your offended that I even bothered to ask a question in such a lowly buy in!  

No not at all offended, if I was, I wouldn"t have bothered reading it much less take time to reply. Not sure what makes you feel that... the comments about the buy-in in the reply were simply to point out, as I"m sure you are aware, that at this level there will be some truly bad players absolute beginners who will not be playing the way you expect... and the comment about the "thinly veiled bad beat story" was just a joke -  see >>>

In fact my online play is shot to pieces at the moment and I spent over two hours playing in a $100 freeroll last night on DTD. I came 117th of 2577, by the way, just 7 spots off the money and  a huge 30c payday!!  

[Waz1892]

... Iit seemed your offended that I even bothered to ask a question in such a lowly buy in!  

No not at all offended, if I was, I wouldn"t have bothered reading it much less take time to reply. Not sure what makes you feel that... the comments about the buy-in in the reply were simply to point out, as I"m sure you are aware, that at this level there will be some truly bad players absolute beginners who will not be playing the way you expect... and the comment about the "thinly veiled bad beat story" was just a joke -  see >>>

In fact my online play is shot to pieces at the moment and I spent over two hours playing in a $100 freeroll last night on DTD. I came 117th of 2577, by the way, just 7 spots off the money and  a huge 30c payday!!  

Once again TY!...aware your comments were light hearted!

I may well be way above my station here, but I feel at the moment that whilst my bankroll is nowhere near I want or like it (who"s is?!)..but I"m stuck in this level, (cash games 1/2 2/4c) and feel I"m better than the standard at this level, but cant afford to go higher.

That said, and the reason to write the hand in the 1st place, was to get players of your quality to help me in my quest to get better, and maybe point out that I should be reading plays better and should have spotted he did have the qj, and been big enough to lay down AA.  But as your corretly state the "play" at $1 tournies is lower, so trying to find middle ground as I slowly try to build of bankroll from scratch.

It is strangely "easier" to play in the APAT at mo, even tho this is a very higher level of play in the main as it is played " correctly"  20th and 26th in the last 2 APAT open"s is something that I"m pleased with.

I do appreicate you taking the time to answer the original question.  

[Waz1892]

woohoo.. just seen posting that reply I"m a silver member with 100 posts...!!

[evilpie]

Well first off a 4x BB raise in a $1 tournament won"t get rid of any one with 2 "pretty cards", another 60 chips doesn"t make much of hole in 1500. With SB calling I"m suprised the BB didn"t call with any 2.

Firstly I have to say that I agree with this 100%. In the early stages of a low buy in tournament you are very rarely going to see off the field with a 4 x bb raise (not that you want to see them all off with AA)

I suppose really in the early stages you"ve got to decide what you want out of your aces? If you push you"re likely to get called by any good ace or a decent pair and have a good chance of doubling. I may be wrong but it seems that people in these early stages are trying to build big stacks and will risk everything on a moderate hand. If you get out drawn, fair enough at least you were ahead at the time your chips went in.

The flip side to the push is that you"re also likely to just win the blinds which you may not decide is enough.

The difficult thing is deciding how much to raise to only get calls from proper hands so that you will have an idea where you are after the flop. Unfortunately in these tournaments you just can"t know this until the later stages. (This isn"t a knock at low buy ins, more so the high number of entries trying to build stacks)

If I get a premium hand in the early stages of a high entry low buy in tournament I try to think of the raise more in terms of stack size rather than blind level. That"s the only way to get rid of all the limpers. The way I would play this hand is to put in a big raise probably around 200-300 and hope that someone pushes either with a decent hand or thinking I"m on a move. If I only win the blinds then I"m happy. You just can"t afford to be up against 3 other players (which you would"ve been had the bb called).

[GiMac]

Forgive me here but surely he has hit trips and not 2 pair otherwise your AAQQ 2 pair woulda won.  

You say you put him on either AQ or KQ, well both are beating you substantially as is Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5 etc etc. If you have him on a Q then you have to let it go.

Mind you late on in $45k in stars last night I raise with AA get one caller, flop comes 8 3 7  2xdiamonds. Player check raises me all in and I still call knowing he has hit his trips, he duly turns over 77 and i hit the rail.  lol

[Swinebag]

Forgive me here but surely he has hit trips and not 2 pair otherwise your AAQQ 2 pair woulda won.  

You say you put him on either AQ or KQ, well both are beating you substantially as is Q2, Q3, Q4, Q5 etc etc. If you have him on a Q then you have to let it go.

Mind you late on in $45k in stars last night I raise with AA get one caller, flop comes 8 3 7  2xdiamonds. Player check raises me all in and I still call knowing he has hit his trips, he duly turns over 77 and i hit the rail.  lol

Thers only one Q on the board. I know because i thought the J was another Q too, the first time I looked.

Flop -  jh qd

[smileriraq]

Going Slightly off on a tangent on your previous post

I play ata a slightly higher level $2.40 6 man SNG and .5/.10 cash games but trying to build a bank roll I keep playing at this level

when I reach $30 I play SNG at the next level ($5.5 SNG 6 man) if i lose and my balance for the month drops below $30 for the month I revert back to the $2.4 level

If I win I continue at that level until the end of the month and then start from scratch - using this method I am usually up about $20-$100 at the end of the month and I get to try my hand at the next level up


obviously you can modify the level to suit your requirements

[AMRN]

What did i do wrong?

Level 1 hand 4.  Already doubled up with flopped flush.  Only $1 buy in, so please lower your normal expectations!

In a $1 buy in, or a free roll, just shove it in preflop - some idiot will call and you will double up more often than not. 4xBB raise might be the right play in a higher stake game, and will be sufficient to push most inferior hands away, leaving you in a better situation post flop.  If I play a micro stake or freeroll MTT and get aces early on, I"m looking for a double up or the next tourney.

[tumblet]

What did i do wrong?

Level 1 hand 4.  Already doubled up with flopped flush.  Only $1 buy in, so please lower your normal expectations!

In a $1 buy in, or a free roll, just shove it in preflop - some idiot will call and you will double up more often than not. 4xBB raise might be the right play in a higher stake game, and will be sufficient to push most inferior hands away, leaving you in a better situation post flop.  If I play a micro stake or freeroll MTT and get aces early on, I"m looking for a double up or the next tourney.

Completly agree.. Shove them in.. your in outdraw city when some fool calls, but you just to hope they do call 10 times out of 10..