Improving

[MrBlack]

Hi folks. Just wondering what everyone has done to improve their game? Recently I feel like im very limited in my game, both live and online (yes ive dipped back into it again). Live, ive reached alot of final tables but usually with a shortstack due to one silly hand. But even with a decent stack, my endgame isnt all that good.

My online play though, is horrendous, literally useless. Im just wondering what I can do to improve, some reccommendations would be nice, and would also be cool to hear what other people have done with some obvious results.

Also, said tournaments are only £10 buy-ins

[TheSnapper]

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

Your post is very vague tbh and could be paraphrased as...

How do you get  good at Poker cos I"m not very good.

Some useful info so as people could address the key areas for you, how long are you playing? what games do you play? have you read any poker books, what style of play do you adopt?

Live, ive reached alot of final tables but usually with a shortstack

This is a common statement from beginners (not saying you are a beginner btw) and usually results from not playing enough hands. The problem is that as you play more hands you open yourself up to getting in tough spots and making big mistakes in big pots.

Reading strategy HH"s on here and elsewhere and contributing to the debates is probably the single best method for learning and improving imho. GL with your endeavours.

[Sef]

I finally started to run good. lol.

[noble1]

Hi folks. Just wondering what everyone has done to improve their game? Recently I feel like im very limited in my game, both live and online (yes ive dipped back into it again). Live, ive reached alot of final tables but usually with a shortstack due to one silly hand. But even with a decent stack, my endgame isnt all that good.

My online play though, is horrendous, literally useless. Im just wondering what I can do to improve, some reccommendations would be nice, and would also be cool to hear what other people have done with some obvious results.

Also, said tournaments are only £10 buy-ins

Just wondering what everyone has done to improve their game?

what did i do to improve my game? hmmmm
for me, i"d spend vast amounts of time trying to discover spots/situations which are given to much credit where nobody would suspect i would be bluffing, so i"d just bluff a lot until somebody caught on.
the good players will be the ones to catch on to the fact what i am doing, so then its a simple matter of adjusting and cutting out the bluffing against them and doing it even more for value... but i i would still do it to the ones who would continue to fold for whatever reason, be it there style or there stubbornness to play by the book
likewise the opposite with value hands, i look for spots or lines of play that i could take where i wont be given much credit..

Im just wondering what I can do to improve

think a lot, be out of the box...
try to learn the fundamentals/basic concepts as well as u can...
get good at hand reading


i posted this in the donkey thread that might interest u - http://web.mit.edu/willma/www/lec7.pdf

[ronaldo07]

Play some PLO200 cash.

[Des]

Play some PLO200 cash.

.....yeah, and play the Sunday Warmup on PokerStars also....  

[bhoywonder70]

Play less tables 1 or 2....takes copious amounts of notes....n concentrate when out of hands.....look for spots....be aware of your image and take advantage

[Santino67]

Welcome Mr Black and hope you"re here for the longer term. I"d say post specific hands, ask specific questions and take it all on board. I"m sure i"m not alone in gaining many pieces of knowledge from the guys & gals on here, despite the fact I"ve admittedly disgreed sometimes. If you disgaree with a particular point or don"t understand what"s being said then question it, but don"t be too stubborn to try new approaches coz you believe one thing and they advise another. the likes of Noble, George2loose, Brendan et al will try to help you improve and like I said I"ve not always initially got my head round some of the advice, but i"ve been game enough to try the stuff out.

Figure out what you do wrong, identify the weaknesses and cut them out. Do you play too many hands? Do you call too often out of position? Do you know anything about the the people at your table? Position is vital, picking out the weaklings is vital, knowing when to dump a hand in bad shape is vital (not one of my strengths   ) Finally......raggy aces can be occasionally lucrative but will often bust your chops  

GL mate

[stone]

From my point of view:

• Keep Records, its too easy to have a too inflated or pessimistic outlook on ones abilities use Pokertracker etc for online and a smart phone app for live (Poker Journal on IPhone is my fav).


• Make notes - Unless you"ve got photographic memory keep even the most basic notes on your common adversaries


• BankRoll mgt - I know everyones eyes roll over but for me its the most important aspect of Poker! Clearly set yourself poker goals, pick the right levels of buy-in and analyse your records to figure out if its working and where"s next.


• Mix it up - Poker is a broad church, there are many games, formats and styles. For me just playing Holdem is just 1 dimensional, having an appreciation of other games and formats will make you a better holdem player IMO.


• Study, Read, Discuss - Just playing poker could be like teaching yourself to drive, how do you know if you"ve got bad habits as the variance of the game can hide demons.


• Play more poker! Get out there play in different venues, challenge yourself and get out of your comfort zone once in a while!

Hope I dont sound too preachy, most importantly enjoy it, as if its not Fun then whats the point!

[MrBlack]

Hi guys. Yeah here for the long term, you may see me at apat live. Im swamped with coursework at the moment so i"ll reply properly later. Thanks for the replies so far!

[AAroddersAA]

Welcome to the Forum, good luck with any live APAT's you play as well.

To begin with reading your OP, I assume you are a tournament player, does not sound like you are doing too bad.

"Live, ive reached alot of final tables but usually with a shortstack due to one silly hand"

Well if you are reaching final tables you are doing something right. Explain one silly hand, where do you think you are going wrong, what mistake are you making? If you are unsure just explain some hands where you lost chips and we can have a look at them, maybe post the in the Strategy section as their own thread.

Some simple things you can do:-

1) Review sessions when they are complete, find hands where you make mistakes, ask better players about them.

2) As you review the sessions make notes about the regular players you play against (this is more important in cash tbh).

3) Listen to advice you are given, you won"t agree with all of it and you don"t have to use it all but think about if it might make sense before disregarding it.

4) Read and contribute the the discussion on these boards comment on hands and ask questions.

Obviously improving is not something you just do, you have to work hard at it and put in the time , look through the hands you have played and you slowly find leaks and plug them you also gain a better understanding of the way players generally play certain spots.

Hope we keep this thread going as it could get very good.

[MrBlack]

I cant realy remember any at the moment but next time i go i"ll try type/record a few into my phone then post them up. I realised i was playing too many marginal hands, bleeding chip and then when the levels go up, my stack is below average and doesnt give me much maneouver room.

Sometimes aswell I do give to much credit, but, when I dont give anyone credit it seems to be the wrong decision. For example, I was playing a bounty tournament the other day. The blinds were 800/1600. Guy open shoves UTG+1 for something like 8/9000 and its folded around to me in the BB, I look down at 44. I only have around 18,000. I should have realised he wasnt playing many hands, I thought there was a good chance I could be ahead, I was putting him on 2 paint, I called and he flipped over JJ and I lost. Was this the right call?

Regarding position, yes sometimes I dont pay attention as much as I should do and sometimes miss where I am or where others are. Even when we get deep and steep, i only ever take M into account once or twice.

Thaanks guys btw, starting to find some leaks already and its helping.

Indeed, this could be a good discussion thread.

Also, about studying. Winning chances, and the mathematics are something I wish to understand fuly (im not too shabby at mental arithmetic). What would be some recommended reading?

[samson]

If your struggling at FTs then I recommend you play some single table Sit n Go"s.
The dynamics change all the time in these games and you get used to short stacks, big blinds and short handed play very quickly.

Post your losing/marginal hands up. Plenty of people on here will be able to tell you where you are going wrong

[TheSnapper]

I cant realy remember any at the moment but next time i go i"ll try type/record a few into my phone then post them up. I realised i was playing too many marginal hands, bleeding chip and then when the levels go up, my stack is below average and doesnt give me much maneouver room.

Sometimes aswell I do give to much credit, but, when I dont give anyone credit it seems to be the wrong decision. For example, I was playing a bounty tournament the other day. The blinds were 800/1600. Guy open shoves UTG+1 for something like 8/9000 and its folded around to me in the BB, I look down at 44. I only have around 18,000. I should have realised he wasnt playing many hands, I thought there was a good chance I could be ahead, I was putting him on 2 paint, I called and he flipped over JJ and I lost. Was this the right call?

Regarding position, yes sometimes I dont pay attention as much as I should do and sometimes miss where I am or where others are. Even when we get deep and steep, i only ever take M into account once or twice.

Thaanks guys btw, starting to find some leaks already and its helping.

Indeed, this could be a good discussion thread.

Also, about studying. Winning chances, and the mathematics are something I wish to understand fuly (im not too shabby at mental arithmetic). What would be some recommended reading?

Download Pokerstove HERE and run some hand versus range match ups, it will develope your understanding of your equity in various spots.

For example, when deciding whether to call an all in with 44 for half your stack. You estimate a range of hands that villain will shove with his 6 bb stack, say he shoves 50% of hands ( most will be shoving tighter ranges than this )

33+,A2s+,K2s+,Q2s+,J4s+,T6s+,96s+,86s+,76s,65s,A2o+,K5o+,Q7o+,J7o+,T8o+,98o

versus this range 44 has ~51% equity ( will expect to win 51% of the time )

If you are totally out of your depth versus the field, you should call.

If as I suspect you have somewhat of an edge versus the field, folding is superior to flipping.

[noble1]

Also, about studying. Winning chances, and the mathematics are something I wish to understand fuly (im not too shabby at mental arithmetic). What would be some recommended reading?

understanding ranges -
http://www.bluffmagazine.com/magazine/"G-Bucks"-Conceptualizing-Money-Matters.-Phil-Galfond-985.htm
http://www.bluffmagazine.com/magazine/Wait,-Weight-Phil-Galfond-932.htm
http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/mathematics/g-bucks/

counting combo"s etc etc is a form of Bayes Theorem like Galfond points out, against predictable players its great but against very good players who mix up their play since they are smart and logical, you simply have to use a opponent model that includes the concept of mixing it up...  they will make plays based on implied odds and bluffing and deception, but they generally won"t make purely bad plays, so guesstimation as i call it is required
the concept of guesstimation is also needed for BAD players because generally the worse the opponent, the less precision you will have in your estimation, because there play is very erratic so when you are thinking about their play, you have to think that they just may be making a huge mistake pre or post, and allow for that in your guesstimations

a bit of maths -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_probability_(Texas_hold_%27em)


going back to the subject/concept of ranges for differing styles/skill levels of opponents -
you need to use a model in your head that"s specific to each inidividual - are they loose, aggressive, do they mix it up, are they just a bad player that plays every hand, etc.
for any estimation, you need to think about the situation yourself and your opponent/s maybe in, post flop try to take the ranges idea to the point where you can imagine how a opponent will react with there range based on what your action might be, or how do they view your range when they bet and see you call etc etc...  try to guesstimate what your opponent will have in the future if you make a certain action and how his range will respond... 
nothing new in the above, thats basically poker boiled down....

and on improving in general here is a Galfond quote to think about -

Think about the value of plays that you often don't consider.  Think about different ways a hand can play out, and what you have to gain or lose by taking an alternate line.