Author Topic: DTD Deepstack satellite hand  (Read 3312 times)

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pokerpops

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DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« on: May 28, 2012, 12:35:01 PM »
Early ish, I"ve played very few hands
Villain is new name to me - HEM has 20 hands with 15%VPIP and 10% PFR


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NL Holdem $150(BB) Replayer Game#2889382459

waggy5757 ($6,193)
Vinodh ($8,508)
david ($9,782)
d216090 ($10,000)
rick117 ($14,500)
gkusdon ($20,691)
PokerSta83 ($10,000)
Cyprus20 ($14,659)
ON.E.8.E.7 ($10,212)
whatacatch ($6,275)

waggy5757 posts (SB) $75
Vinodh posts (BB) $150

Dealt to david Ad  Qd  
david raises to $337
fold, fold, fold, fold, fold,
ON.E.8.E.7 calls $337
fold, fold,
Vinodh calls $187
FLOP ($1,086) Ah  6c  3c  
Vinodh checks
david bets $814
ON.E.8.E.7 calls $814
Vinodh calls $814
TURN ($3,528) Ah  6c  3c  Js  
Vinodh checks
david bets $1,764
ON.E.8.E.7 calls $1,764
Vinodh folds
RIVER ($7,056) Ah  6c  3c  Js  8c  

david...
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Marty719

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Re: DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2012, 12:53:04 PM »
Seems a fairly standard c/f.  We dnt expect villain to turn worse Ax hands into bluffs otr, and I cnt see any air he gets here with.  
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jayteejack

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Re: DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2012, 12:58:24 PM »
Good chance u behind. I"d bet 2000ish, fold to a reraise. AK, AK, two pair flush etc is beating you, but only a flush or bluff would pop it.
Whatever the case I think u need to bet here.

AMRN

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Re: DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2012, 13:27:55 PM »
He"s called pre, flop, and turn, and you have no history with him that might make you think he is playing a floaty line.... so you have to assume that he either has something and is calling to get to showdown, or he is drawing to the flush.

If you check the river, he will of course bet his flush and you can fold.... If he has a worse Ace, he will probably be thankful for a cheap showdown, and check behind.

Pretty simple check/fold for me on the river.

mporter123

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Re: DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2012, 13:37:43 PM »
Make it 450 pre with stacks this deep and no antes.

Check fold river.

deanp27

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Re: DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2012, 15:19:56 PM »
Pre is fine but I would generally bet smaller on the flop and maybe turn(think half pot is ok though) river is either a c/f or really small b/f
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pokerpops

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Re: DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2012, 16:01:24 PM »
Thanks for the comments so far.

Bigger pre? Maybe, given my position.

I took the bet bet line on flop and turn because I believe I have the best hand here enough of the time to make that right. I think sets and two pair hands raise me on flop or turn.

So now - the club falls on the river and we"re down to check call or bet fold? If only we had  Ac we could just jam here but we don"t
So...
If we check we open the door for him to bet and represent the flush (it"s what I"d do in his shoes)
A small bet seems to still leave room for him to raise me off the pot in the same way as a check does
A bigger bet, one that says "I"m not as scared of that last club as you expect me to be"? Does that get called by worse? Does it get better to fold?

What does he need to raise the river?


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Marty719

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Re: DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2012, 16:20:05 PM »


So now - the club falls on the river and we"re down to check call or bet fold? If only we had  Ac we could just jam here but we don"t
So...
If we check we open the door for him to bet and represent the flush (it"s what I"d do in his shoes)
A small bet seems to still leave room for him to raise me off the pot in the same way as a check does
A bigger bet, one that says "I"m not as scared of that last club as you expect me to be"? Does that get called by worse? Does it get better to fold?

What does he need to raise the river?





Few points with this.  I think it would be awful to jam w/ the Ac here, as villain is unlikely to be folding any flush regardless.  I"m all for using blockers to our advantage, but not in these spots, and certainly not when we already have sdv.

Ur also worried about villain rep"n the flush if we check, but what do we think his range will be for flatting flop and turn here.  IMO it is going to be mostly Ax hands and flushes.  Obviously, this seems a pretty good spot for villain to turn weak Ax hands into bluffs, but we cannot worry about him doing this without a solid read.  Usually, as Steve says, villain v/bets his flushes and checks behind his flushes.  This also seems like a pretty bad board to get trappy with sets, so we can probs discount them for the most part, but obv if villain is going to v/bet sets otr, we r still happy with our c/f line.

As far as villain thinking our small bet was weak and jamming over the top, there are no air hands that villain can feasibly have on this river, so again we would need a pretty solid read tht villain was capable of turning made hands into bluffs. 

A big bet never gets called by worse here.  It may get some 2 pair hands to fold but tht is obv player dependant, and doesnt achieve much vs villains river range.

If we bet small otr, a standard villain needs flushes to raise. 

I"m all for v/betting thinly, but I think on this board, vs this villains line, we can comfortably c/f and not think twice.
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deanp27

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Re: DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2012, 16:22:04 PM »
Don"t think he is calling you all the way to the river just to represent the flush. I think you get blown off the best hand a really small% of the time, especially in these sats
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pokerpops

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Re: DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2012, 16:40:59 PM »
I bet* - he shoved
I folded putting him very firmly on the made flush with Axcc


* I bet too big tbf, around half pot again, virtually turning my v-bet into a bluff and as soon as he shoved I knew it was too much. Felt right to find the fold button at that stage. I still had a playable stack and with a little run good later when my Q10 flopped two pair and turned a house and the later joy of cracking AA and JJ with KQ, I made the seats with room to spare in the end. Unlike Mr ON.E.8.E.7 who maybe chased one flush too many....


Q 10 hand for your delectatrion and delight....

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gkusdon ($18,279)
PokerSta83 ($8,750)
Cyprus20 ($18,621)
ON.E.8.E.7 ($17,881)
whatacatch ($6,275)
waggy5757 ($5,331)
Vinodh ($6,907)
david ($3,676)
d216090 ($9,775)
rick117 ($15,325)

gkusdon posts (SB) $75
PokerSta83 posts (BB) $150

Dealt to david Qc  Tc  
Cyprus20 calls $150
fold, fold,
waggy5757 calls $150
Vinodh calls $150
david calls $150 -  - limping behind serial limpers here to see a flop, nothing from the players behind suggested they would raise other than with monsters
fold, fold,
gkusdon calls $75
PokerSta83 checks
FLOP ($900) Qh  Td  Kd  
gkusdon checks
PokerSta83 checks
Cyprus20 checks
waggy5757 checks
Vinodh checks
david bets $675    for value/charge the flush draws
gkusdon folds
PokerSta83 folds
Cyprus20 calls $675
waggy5757 calls $675
Vinodh folds
TURN ($2,925) Qh  Td  Kd  Ts  
Cyprus20 checks
waggy5757 checks
david checks    check for deception and to let flush draws catch up
RIVER ($2,925) Qh  Td  Kd  Ts  6d  
Cyprus20 checks
waggy5757 checks
david bets $2,851 (AI)    someone must have a hand to call with....
Cyprus20 folds
waggy5757 calls $2,851
waggy5757 shows 9s  Kc  not the hand I"d expect to call, but never mind :-)
(Pre 55%, Flop 37.0%, Turn 4.5%)

david shows Qc  Tc  
(Pre 45%, Flop 63.0%, Turn 95.5%)

david wins $8,627

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WYoung83

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Re: DTD Deepstack satellite hand
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2012, 00:52:58 AM »
 Pre is good. Flop cbet size is ok but maybe a little big for my liking, turn somtimes check turn (depends on gameflow and percived ranges but only you can answer this) i actually like keeping pots small with margional hands when i have showdown value, especially since the guy who peels has another player who has only checked and can still check/raise (although very unlikely unless he has AJ)  i am not loving AQ on the turn.

Bet folding river is the abso worst play ever (whoops just read last post and seen that you done this, no rubs intended honest), when im thinking about river play and i have SDV then i would rather check call than bet fold. Bet fold is when we have nothing and are bluffing, and bet/calling river is not too good because you are normally beat when he raises (unless u have reason to think they are gonna bluff raise, but thats meta game stuff that is more normal in cash games and wont really happen here in this spot).

I would check fold this river 100% easy tbh. People arnt gonna turn their hands into a bluff in this spot and it looked like he had at least some kind of equity or made hand on turn.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 01:03:10 AM by WYoung83 »