APAT Staking Exchange - Discussion

[KarmaDope]

It was this bit that made me comment.  More about the situation when a stakee doesn"t cash enough to clear the stake.  Not sure how that can"t be seen as a debt ?  The stakee owes the staker money, and would be expected to pay it back with any future winnings, dependant on either playing on their own dime, or finding more staking.

What happens at the end of the deal if the stakee does not turn a profit?

There are a few options and they depend on what both staker and stakee wish to do. Staker can cancel the makeup and eat the cost. If the staker doesn"t want to continue backing the stakee, they can sell the makeup at a reduced price (to be agreed privately) to the stakee"s new backer. The stakee can buy himself out should he wish to go alone. There are other options, but these are the main.

Not really.

If the horse wishes to leave then yes, it can become a debt, as it"s generally accepted that the horse must find a way out - he can either buy himself out in a deal/get a new backer to buy his MU or grind until out of MU and then leave.

Of course he can just up and leave - but horses who need backing in MU agreements generally then need to find new backers and won"t do this cos their reputation is very important in this.

If the backer wants to pull out - then he eats the cost or tries to sell the MU on. It"s an unwritten rule that if the backer can"t afford to stake the horse any more, then it"s gg. The horse can find a new backer at no cost.

Staking with MU is kinda like a business where you employ the horse. If you want to dismiss your employee, you generally have to pay (notice in lieu etc). If the horse wants to leave and owes the company money - you get that back.

[mal666]

Judging a price.

Basically if someone is selling at 1.1:1 and they can show you they have 40% roi over a decent sample of games this would be great value.

You"re getting 30% about that price.

It obv needs to be beneficial to both sides, a player needs the backing so takes a hit on his ev to give value to backers.

Punting on mates in 60/40 deals as a one off is actually ok, but it"s more of a favour and almost certainly a long term loser.
But I would do it for skint friends. (deffo not on random requests)

[KarmaDope]

Good stuff Adam

I can"t see makeup being applied too much in this forum"s staking section. Most make-up agreements are long term and done in private.

Though horses, that have continually failed, may choose to pay long term backers all their money back, when they finally land a big one.

I can.

For example - Steve Roderick comes on and says he wants backing for Stars $2.50 turbo 180"s for a minimum of 6 months. He asks for a 200 buy in bankroll to grind these which is $500. He offers 60/40 with MU on the condition that we are happy to reload and that once he reaches $1k he can take shots at $8"s. When he gets to a set figure (example again - $1500) he carves up the $1k and begins again with $500.

(this is a really crap example by the way)

Easily a staking thread I could see on here and probably would be a thread a lot of us would invest in because most people would think that it is printing money!

[mal666]

Good stuff Adam

I can"t see makeup being applied too much in this forum"s staking section. Most make-up agreements are long term and done in private.

Though horses, that have continually failed, may choose to pay long term backers all their money back, when they finally land a big one.

I can.

For example - Steve Roderick comes on and says he wants backing for Stars $2.50 turbo 180"s for a minimum of 6 months. He asks for a 200 buy in bankroll to grind these which is $500. He offers 60/40 with MU on the condition that we are happy to reload and that once he reaches $1k he can take shots at $8"s. When he gets to a set figure (example again - $1500) he carves up the $1k and begins again with $500.

(this is a really crap example by the way)

Easily a staking thread I could see on here and probably would be a thread a lot of us would invest in because most people would think that it is printing money!

Put it up then  

[George2Loose]

I think this a great venture for APAT however the mark ups are generally unrealistic. I would love to invest some £££ but doubt I"ll be buying at a premium when you can get similar mark ups on some of the best players in the country. I do understand that this may be more about community spirit.

[SirPercival]

I think this a great venture for APAT however the mark ups are generally unrealistic. I would love to invest some £££ but doubt I"ll be buying at a premium when you can get similar mark ups on some of the best players in the country. I do understand that this may be more about community spirit.

I believe the going rate for one of the best players* in the country is 1.5  



*still hasn"t won an APAT though  

[George2Loose]

I think this a great venture for APAT however the mark ups are generally unrealistic. I would love to invest some £££ but doubt I"ll be buying at a premium when you can get similar mark ups on some of the best players in the country. I do understand that this may be more about community spirit.

I believe the going rate for one of the best players* in the country is 1.5  



*still hasn"t won an APAT though  

wish I could charge 1.5 as a going rate. Think for the main event it"s a special circumstance cos u can get such a huge return on investment

[Des]

I think this a great venture for APAT however the mark ups are generally unrealistic. I would love to invest some £££ but doubt I"ll be buying at a premium when you can get similar mark ups on some of the best players in the country. I do understand that this may be more about community spirit.

As one of the senior members George, you should offer your thoughts when people post requests and I think you"ll find that mark ups will reduce to a sensible level as players become more knowledgeable.

[SirPercival]

I think this a great venture for APAT however the mark ups are generally unrealistic. I would love to invest some £££ but doubt I"ll be buying at a premium when you can get similar mark ups on some of the best players in the country. I do understand that this may be more about community spirit.

I believe the going rate for one of the best players* in the country is 1.5  



*still hasn"t won an APAT though  

wish I could charge 1.5 as a going rate. Think for the main event it"s a special circumstance cos u can get such a huge return on investment

I agree, and I hope you win it all.

I was going to try the auction approach but I don"t think we"re quite ready for that here yet. Perhaps something to think about though.

I"m charging 1.18 on my request and I"m sure many people think that"s overpriced and that I"m a bad bet, however those that do invest are only paying a few quid extra for the potential of a decent return. The premium helps cover expenses as well which makes the event affordable for me.Without it I would most likely not be playing it hence the request in the first place.

[mal666]

I think this a great venture for APAT however the mark ups are generally unrealistic. I would love to invest some £££ but doubt I"ll be buying at a premium when you can get similar mark ups on some of the best players in the country. I do understand that this may be more about community spirit.

As one of the senior members George, you should offer your thoughts when people post requests and I think you"ll find that mark ups will reduce to a sensible level as players become more knowledgeable.

When someone puts a request up it"s hard to say I think you"re overpriced without looking like a troll.

Maybe put a line in your template asking people to justify any markup ?

[Paulie_D]

Maybe put a line in your template asking people to justify any markup ?

I don"t think so...any responses are likely to get out of hand quite quickly.

At the end of the day the markup is a decision for each potential backer to accept....or not.

[AAroddersAA]

Good stuff Adam

I can"t see makeup being applied too much in this forum"s staking section. Most make-up agreements are long term and done in private.

Though horses, that have continually failed, may choose to pay long term backers all their money back, when they finally land a big one.

I can.

For example - Steve Roderick comes on and says he wants backing for Stars $2.50 turbo 180"s for a minimum of 6 months. He asks for a 200 buy in bankroll to grind these which is $500. He offers 60/40 with MU on the condition that we are happy to reload and that once he reaches $1k he can take shots at $8"s. When he gets to a set figure (example again - $1500) he carves up the $1k and begins again with $500.

(this is a really crap example by the way)

Easily a staking thread I could see on here and probably would be a thread a lot of us would invest in because most people would think that it is printing burning money!

Fixed for you - I am pretty sure said player has failed to cash in the last 24 180"s he has played and is nothing but a luckbox fish.

[George2Loose]

I think this a great venture for APAT however the mark ups are generally unrealistic. I would love to invest some £££ but doubt I"ll be buying at a premium when you can get similar mark ups on some of the best players in the country. I do understand that this may be more about community spirit.

As one of the senior members George, you should offer your thoughts when people post requests and I think you"ll find that mark ups will reduce to a sensible level as players become more knowledgeable.

When someone puts a request up it"s hard to say I think you"re overpriced without looking like a troll.

Maybe put a line in your template asking people to justify any markup ?

Yeh this. TBF it"s up to the market to decide. I really wouldn"t want to play bad guy on anyone"s thread. Obv I hope staking is hugely successful on APAT so no one cares about any mark up paid.

FWIW I would have loved to have got a licence and give APATers a chance to get some of my main event action but 1% of 9 milly was too much

[Des]

I think this a great venture for APAT however the mark ups are generally unrealistic. I would love to invest some £££ but doubt I"ll be buying at a premium when you can get similar mark ups on some of the best players in the country. I do understand that this may be more about community spirit.

As one of the senior members George, you should offer your thoughts when people post requests and I think you"ll find that mark ups will reduce to a sensible level as players become more knowledgeable.

When someone puts a request up it"s hard to say I think you"re overpriced without looking like a troll.

Maybe put a line in your template asking people to justify any markup ?

Yeh this. TBF it"s up to the market to decide. I really wouldn"t want to play bad guy on anyone"s thread. Obv I hope staking is hugely successful on APAT so no one cares about any mark up paid.

FWIW I would have loved to have got a licence and give APATers a chance to get some of my main event action but 1% of 9 milly was too much

Hey I gave you a free shirt in September 2006 and that sucker"s got to be worth £4 or £5 today due to its uniqueness - first APAT exit and all - so you had a freebie AND a potential profit.  I think you should put a little bit back on the table.

[SirPercival]

Des,

Could you have a look at Marks and my stake requests to clarify how the APAT % works please.

Thanks