Flatting a raise with AA

[pokerpops]

Let"s say we"re on a table where 6 of the 9 are playing fairly snug.
There"s some dynamic with a couple of the other players - one (player A) is Button to my BB, the other (Player B) is Button to his BB.
Over about 8 orbits Player A has raised button every time it got to him unopened and a couple when it didn"t.
We"ve already 3bet vs our button and barreled flop and turn to get him to fold
We"ve also folded and 3bet folded to our button.
We haven"t had big hands

Fold to Player B who raises from hijack it folds to us and we have AA in the big blind.
Stack sizes are 30BB effective (me) Player B has close to double that

3bet or flat and why...

I"ve run into some big hands that have been hidden by flat calling raises lately and I"m trying to work out when/if this is a good idea.

[Paulie_D]

I don"t think the stacks are deep enough to be tricky here but I can see why you might want to.

However, we"re out of position, I 3-bet with a view to jamming (obv) any 4 bet.

If he flats, I jam any flop and hope he thinks it"s a stop and go.

[Erimus]

As above you want the chips in the middle pre if poss you are never folding on whatever flop normally, if you have 50 plus bigs can play it a bit more tricky.

Playing loads on Stars at the moment and the limp utg is very common with AA, KK reason being loads of aggro players will jam their 15/20 big blind stacks, off on a tangent there but hey ho.

This worked to my advantage yesterday when I hit trip Kings on the river, he couldn"t fold dem aces, oh and I flopped straight as well v AA both on final table, who said I don"t run good.

[AMRN]

Playing this shallow, his opening range is often likely to be a little tighter than if we were playing 300bb deep...... so with that in mind, it"s more likely that he holds a hand which he will value-jam if you 3bet. With AA, with stacks this short, I prefer to try and get it all in pre - would hate to miss value from AK/AQ type hands that might shove pre.

[George2Loose]

With so much history why would we flat>>>>3 bet? Surely u have built that dynamic for this very spot?

[mal666]

With so much history why would we flat>>>>3 bet? Surely u have built that dynamic for this very spot?

The op is saying the dynamic is between him and player A, player B the villain has just witnessed it. (I think)

But yeah just 3b small to induce here.

[AAroddersAA]

This looks a simple spot, with this dynamic in play it"s a very straight forward 3-bet isn"t it?

Player B knows that player A is capable of 3-betting him OTB which makes his range stronger. The fact that he has seen you 3-bet fold might make him 4-bet light, although in theory your 3-bet range is a lot stronger vs Hijack compared to against button.

I think you should make your standard size 3-bet, good chance of getting called or raised. I agree with what Steve said.

If you get 4-bet it might well be a shove anyway but if not he is probably commited anyway so 5-bet shove.

If he flats, I jam any flop and hope he thinks it"s a stop and go.

We are too deep for that imo. The 3-bet has probably made the pot about 14BB max so we would be shoving about 23BB into 14BB. Can see where Paulie is coming from on this and it is not a bad play at all but I would prefer just trying to make it look like there MIGHT be a bit of fold equity bet 10BB and jam turn if called unless flop is a really unusual texture.

Are there ante"s in play? Doubt it makes any difference if there are or not to be honest.

[pokerpops]

With so much history why would we flat>>>>3 bet? Surely u have built that dynamic for this very spot?

Nail on head I guess. I did 3bet, he folded. I sighed.

[noble1]

With so much history why would we flat>>>>3 bet? Surely u have built that dynamic for this very spot?

Nail on head I guess. I did 3bet, he folded. I sighed.

why give the result so early david?

fwiw it depends on the buy in and the skill std of player B, if your opponent is tight and he"s good enough to realise that u have just adjusted to player B then a 3bet at this eff stack size may get him to fold nearly all but the very top of his range...
if he is a half decent careful type/regular, its hard to see him spazzing off and four betting off with crap here all that often, especially if he views u as a good regular who is anticipating it...

its probably one of those hands where it"d be more beneficial to show some1 the whole replay of the HH where u and player B are at the table together and see if they read the situation differently..

lots of depends as per usual

[pokerpops]

With so much history why would we flat>>>>3 bet? Surely u have built that dynamic for this very spot?

Nail on head I guess. I did 3bet, he folded. I sighed.

why give the result so early david?

fwiw it depends on the buy in and the skill std of player B, if your opponent is tight and he"s good enough to realise that u have just adjusted to player B then a 3bet at this eff stack size may get him to fold nearly all but the very top of his range...
if he is a half decent careful type/regular, its hard to see him spazzing off and four betting off with crap here all that often, especially if he views u as a good regular who is anticipating it...

its probably one of those hands where it"d be more beneficial to show some1 the whole replay of the HH where u and player B are at the table together and see if they read the situation differently..

lots of depends as per usual

This specific hand was live DTD £500 WSOP WarmUp - Player A was Alex Goulder, Player B was Jamie Sykes

But I was interested more in the idea of flatting with the top of our range against players who we know to have a wide range for opening.
Do we get value from a lot of c-bets and avoid losing value when the top of our range hits the bottom of ours?
I think, fundamentally, that the answer is rarely, and it is dependent on the dynamic and our relative skills postflop and I also think that for now, I"ll just stick to 3betting the top of my range plus some for balance