Bronze match - please read

[Matt D]

Can captains of the teams playing the bronze playoff match please PM me their list of players for the heads up matches.

Sunday will consist of 4 HU matches followed by an STT.

The STT itself is currently incorrectly listed in the client, so please do not register yet. Later it will be changed to include the word "Bronze" in the title, so as to differentiate it from the other final taking place.

Aside from that, just make sure you"re all available on Sunday night and job"s a good"un

More info to follow when I can get to an Internet cafe later (we always stop off for a quick coffee after our morning wakeboard).

I"ll post HU draw on this thread when I"ve received both PMs.

[Matt D]

To clarify, the Bronze final will be played over 1 match. That match will be Sunday @ 9pm. I am awaiting a list of 4 names from both captains to publish the Heads Up draw.

When I"ve got those names, I"ll post the draw. I suggest those games are played from 8pm (again, I"ll post suggested match times).

[Curlarge]

Congrats to Matt, Sooooz, Phil and Colin on winning their bronze medals this evening, well played.

I would like to suggest the following however, which is not sour grapes as you deserved the win.

When these matches reach the final stages, the STT"s have to be organised correctly, in as much as each player must sit between 2 of the opposition at the start.

We had a, presumed, random draw tonight which sat 3 of our oppo in a line. After Colin was busted, our team then had all 4 players in a line and the chip dumping started.

At one stage Soooz was down to around 5 bigs on the BB and Phil raises from the button, Matt calls, Sue shoves and they both fold instantly. We knew that if they lost the next player we couldn"t lose, and I guess they did as well. It allowed Sue to get back in the game and changed the dynamic completely.

These actions were repeated by both teams (we had no choice but to do the same thing tbh) on numerous occasions and for me spoilt the event.

Like I said, take nothing away from the winners, but this has to be addressed before the next tourney, PLEASE

[suzanne]

Congrats to Matt, Sooooz, Phil and Colin on winning their bronze medals this evening, well played.

I would like to suggest the following however, which is not sour grapes as you deserved the win.

When these matches reach the final stages, the STT"s have to be organised correctly, in as much as each player must sit between 2 of the opposition at the start.

We had a, presumed, random draw tonight which sat 3 of our oppo in a line. After Colin was busted, our team then had all 4 players in a line and the chip dumping started.

At one stage Soooz was down to around 5 bigs on the BB and Phil raises from the button, Matt calls, Sue shoves and they both fold instantly. We knew that if they lost the next player we couldn"t lose, and I guess they did as well. It allowed Sue to get back in the game and changed the dynamic completely.

These actions were repeated by both teams (we had no choice but to do the same thing tbh) on numerous occasions and for me spoilt the event.

Like I said, take nothing away from the winners, but this has to be addressed before the next tourney, PLEASE

I actually had KK in that hand and would have loved a call... though preferably from one of your team obv

As you say that then started a trend which was only possible because we were all sat next to each other. The hand with Glenn was hilarious LOL, Glenn had 595? in bb @ 300/150, Andy calls, Curly calls, Glenn shoves his extra 295 and both fold      

Ive played lots of team games in the past but must say i really struggled playing this one, it just wasn"t poker as it should be played. If the seating plan had been different it would have been a much more balanced game.

Unlucky guys, I really thought you had it locked up after the HU games.

Really enjoyed playing it though and hope it runs again.

[Chipaccrual]

You aren"t going to be able to stop sitiuations like that happening.

Remember it is 4v4 on one table.  The software doesn"t allow manual seat allocation, in fact, I doubt any software does.

I watched the whole of the first Stt for the final on Wednesday, and it was 4v1 at the end, and guess what, the 4 didn"t play back against each other once.

Is that wrong ? In this particular scenario, I don"t think it is.  The playing field is level for everyone involved.

For me personally, I culdn"t rail it, and it was impossible to follow, so from a spectacle point of view, I think we would need to change the format going forward, but as for the team aspect, when it is just two teams remaining, perhaps heads up is the only true way to find a winner.

[AMRN]

As you say that then started a trend which was only possible because we were all sat next to each other.

I don"t think this was something that was reserved for this match only. In the very first week, Dan Owston"s team proved to be excellent exponents of the chip dump, no matter where they sat in relation to each other. I remember Scouse having around 4xBB, and Dan raised to 3.5x UTG.... Scouse shoved in late position, and after the blinds folded, Dan of course folded.    This isn"t poor ettiquette, it isn"t cheating, and in my opinion, isn"t even a problem.... it"s a team game where the team has to carry as many people over the line as possible.

If the random seat draw favours a team in a certain situation, they just have to embrace it and use it to their  advantage... on the other hand, it"s up to the other team to find a way to exploit it to their own advantage.

[MintTrav]

This isn"t poor ettiquette, it isn"t cheating, and in my opinion, isn"t even a problem.... it"s a team game where the team has to carry as many people over the line as possible.

If the random seat draw favours a team in a certain situation, they just have to embrace it and use it to their  advantage... on the other hand, it"s up to the other team to find a way to exploit it to their own advantage.

I agree. I have seen people do it in individual events (not talking about APAT), which is pretty grim but in team events I think chip-passing adds to the occasion.

[Sugar_Free]

These actions were repeated by both teams (we had no choice but to do the same thing tbh) on numerous occasions and for me spoilt the event.

To be fair it took Soooz a couple of BB folds to Phil"s button raise to realise what we were trying to do. I think in a team game it"s acceptable provided there"s no actual "I"ve got x, so you need to fold your y" talk. Goodness knows how many decent hands Phil folded from the SB or Button but I"m sure you guys were in the same boat.

It was very blatant but like Steve says, if you know what they are going to do you have to use it to your advantage. The round before the "Glenn" hand, Andy and Deb tried to do the same thing for him but a big raise by me meant it didn"t happen and I picked up 2 extra big blinds.

As for us deserving to win, that"s very generous of you. If Glenn"s QQ holds against my 88 then you win by a mile and I think deservedly so.

I think in future for the finals it would be better to maybe have a series of 2 vs 2 games, would be harder to dump and more chance of being sat in alternate seats, making the 8 player tourney a lower percentage of the points.

[hi_am_chris]

Not saying it happened and hopefully didn"t but it would be impossible to prove if players were fb or msn messaging each other what hands they have, just a downside of online team play I guess

[Spirey]

These actions were repeated by both teams (we had no choice but to do the same thing tbh) on numerous occasions and for me spoilt the event.

To be fair it took Soooz a couple of BB folds to Phil"s button raise to realise what we were trying to do. I think in a team game it"s acceptable provided there"s no actual "I"ve got x, so you need to fold your y" talk. Goodness knows how many decent hands Phil folded from the SB or Button but I"m sure you guys were in the same boat.

It was very blatant but like Steve says, if you know what they are going to do you have to use it to your advantage. The round before the "Glenn" hand, Andy and Deb tried to do the same thing for him but a big raise by me meant it didn"t happen and I picked up 2 extra big blinds.

As for us deserving to win, that"s very generous of you. If Glenn"s QQ holds against my 88 then you win by a mile and I think deservedly so.

I think in future for the finals it would be better to maybe have a series of 2 vs 2 games, would be harder to dump and more chance of being sat in alternate seats, making the 8 player tourney a lower percentage of the points.

I do agree with everything Curlage said there. But we do know the situation before we start. And "chip dumping" weakens a player as much as it strengthens another equally. I do we think we had the run of the cards last night. the 88 beating QQ turned the game and for me i won 2 X dominated whilst ahead and a flip to KO 3 guys. Thats almost unheard of for me after i was 2 outered twice at dtd.

Congratulations to all involved

If poker was always like that it does lose some edge - I agree with Suzanne there. But as a 1 off arrangement for 1 tournament - i thought it was good fun

[Spirey]

Not saying it happened and hopefully didn"t but it would be impossible to prove if players were fb or msn messaging each other what hands they have, just a downside of online team play I guess

I can genuinely say from our side we never discussed hands at any point of any of the games from week 1 to the last

I did post after the hand finished that i had a royal flush last night during the STT. but never during a hand. As i believe that would have been too far to go.