Genting UK & Ireland Home Int Team Championship

[Charlie44]

Myself and Lucy, Phil and matty later on and James "Bigtime" barber at some point too so practically everyone who matters

FYP

Be there or be Welsh!

I forgot to mention that staying away from this evenings gathering in fact does, unfortunately, not actually make you Welsh. It is very unkind of Paulie to get so many peoples hopes up like that. I am sure most of you had intended to say at home tonight on reading this this post thinking you would then be Welsh. This is not the case I am sorry. I would recommend going and enjoying this evening as it will be no difference to how Welsh you are.

Those of you who are not playing for other teams are permitted to support Wales of course. Whilst people playing for other teams may want to support Wales it is not recommended.

LOL. I nominate this as post of the year. Any other nominations ?

[Chipaccrual]

Des/Leigh

I apologize if I have missed this but what time are teams required to be at the venue. I assume there will be photos etc before the event so you will need us there at a reasonable time. I am guessing most of the captains would like a quick chat with their teams before the start so with time being pretty tight we need to plan this well.

Is there still a live stream btw?

Cheers Guy"s - really looking forward to this event.

Rodders

Casino opens from 12 Noon.

We would ask all captains to have their teams in the venue by 1:30pm, with the first round of STT"s starting at 2:30pm.

I"m aiming on being at the casino from 1pm, maybe a bit earlier depending on traffic.

[Fatcatstu]

Sigh@ trying to get tompkyfish anywhere on time

[AAroddersAA]

Sigh@ trying to get tompkyfish anywhere on time

Use your leadership skills, then he will follow where you lead.

I would recommend telling him there is a Cold Guinness waiting when you get there.

[Paulie_D]

Myself and Lucy, Phil and matty later on and James "Bigtime" barber at some point too so practically everyone who matters

FYP

Be there or be Welsh!

I forgot to mention that staying away from this evenings gathering in fact does, unfortunately, not actually make you Welsh. It is very unkind of Paulie to get so many peoples hopes up like that. I am sure most of you had intended to say at home tonight on reading this this post thinking you would then be Welsh. This is not the case I am sorry. I would recommend going and enjoying this evening as it will be no difference to how Welsh you are.

Those of you who are not playing for other teams are permitted to support Wales of course. Whilst people playing for other teams may want to support Wales it is not recommended.

Dear readers,

My apologies if any of you were hoping to become Welsh by not attending the Thursday night festivities.

I was, of course, using verbal shorthand.

Obviously, one cannot change ones nationality or heritage by lack of attendance but a failure to attend such events will make you unpopular, considered a dry "stick in the mud", a lightweight of epic proportions and the sort of person who takes sheep unawares.

What I should have said, of course, was "Be there or you might as well be Welsh"

My bad.

[josharp01]

Myself and Lucy, Phil and matty later on and James "Bigtime" barber at some point too so practically everyone who matters

FYP

Be there or be Welsh!

I forgot to mention that staying away from this evenings gathering in fact does, unfortunately, not actually make you Welsh. It is very unkind of Paulie to get so many peoples hopes up like that. I am sure most of you had intended to say at home tonight on reading this this post thinking you would then be Welsh. This is not the case I am sorry. I would recommend going and enjoying this evening as it will be no difference to how Welsh you are.

Those of you who are not playing for other teams are permitted to support Wales of course. Whilst people playing for other teams may want to support Wales it is not recommended.

Dear readers,

My apologies if any of you were hoping to become Welsh by not attending the Thursday night festivities.

I was, of course, using verbal shorthand.

Obviously, one cannot change ones nationality or heritage by lack of attendance but a failure to attend such events will make you unpopular, considered a dry "stick in the mud", a lightweight of epic proportions and the sort of person who takes sheep unawares.

What I should have said, of course, was "Be there or you might as well be Welsh"

My bad.

^^^^^ new nomination for post of the year!

[Paulie_D]

Medal Matches

After the MTT, the top 4 teams will qualify for the Heads Up Medal Matches

The highest and second highest scoring teams will compete in the Gold medal match

The third and fourth highest scoring teams will compete in the Bronze medal match

Medal matches will consist of up to five heads up matches, with the first team to win three matches declared the winners. Captains will declare their order of play prior to the first match, and it will be played similarly to a penalty shootout.

Wait...and I realise this is WAY too late because I only really twigged tonight but supposing a team dominates all the STT/SNG and MTT winning everything in sight they can still lose based on HU matches?

That"s just wrong.

A team could win every STT, put 5 players in the final 5 of the MTT and still get a silver based in 5 HU?

Exactly how is that fair?

Doesn"t that pretty much invalidate the point of anything that has gone before?

[Newportlad]

Medal Matches

After the MTT, the top 4 teams will qualify for the Heads Up Medal Matches

The highest and second highest scoring teams will compete in the Gold medal match

The third and fourth highest scoring teams will compete in the Bronze medal match

Medal matches will consist of up to five heads up matches, with the first team to win three matches declared the winners. Captains will declare their order of play prior to the first match, and it will be played similarly to a penalty shootout.

Wait...and I realise this is WAY too late because I only really twigged tonight but supposing a team dominates all the STT/SNG and MTT winning everything in sight they can still lose based on HU matches?

That"s just wrong.

A team could win every STT, put 5 players in the final 5 of the MTT and still get a silver based in 5 HU?

Exactly how is that fair?

Doesn"t that pretty much invalidate the point of anything that has gone before?

Surely this cannot be right?
If so, then very much +1 to what Paulie has said.
Must be some reward for the previous positions,  Some part of the prizepool (i suggest 50%), should be determined by the positions before the HU challenge.

[Mikeyboy9361]

Glad to see everyone was really clued up with the format!  

[AMRN]

Medal Matches

After the MTT, the top 4 teams will qualify for the Heads Up Medal Matches

The highest and second highest scoring teams will compete in the Gold medal match

The third and fourth highest scoring teams will compete in the Bronze medal match

Medal matches will consist of up to five heads up matches, with the first team to win three matches declared the winners. Captains will declare their order of play prior to the first match, and it will be played similarly to a penalty shootout.

Wait...and I realise this is WAY too late because I only really twigged tonight but supposing a team dominates all the STT/SNG and MTT winning everything in sight they can still lose based on HU matches?

That"s just wrong.

A team could win every STT, put 5 players in the final 5 of the MTT and still get a silver based in 5 HU?

Exactly how is that fair?

Doesn"t that pretty much invalidate the point of anything that has gone before?

Drawing a comparison, if a country playing in the football world cup finals won all of their group stage matches 10-0, ran away the group, then crushed their QF and SF matches 10-0 each time...... then played the final against a team that had scraped through, and got beaten into the silver medal spot........ would you claim that to be unfair as well?

In this event, the STTs and MTTs are obviously seen as qualification rounds to get to the HU finals.

[Hammerite]

I have heard a few people say that the MTT points are out of sync with the STT points, my suggestion is quite a simple one, make the points for the STT"s worth 5 times as much i.e 40,35,30 etc etc.  I think all former captains should get together for an online chat and come up with a standard points structure that is sanctioned by all countries which take part in team events. Personally I am happy to play under what ever scoring system Apat decides, however I have heard the comments about the MTT points on numerous occasions and feel consultation/debate is the best way forward to avoid future comments which I feel detracts from the efforts of the successful teams.

[Charlie44]

This was my first international team event and I really enjoyed despite the disappointing results for the Wales teams. Congrats to the APAT management team for the exceptional organisation yet again.

Like some others I wonder however if the structure of the points system could be tweaked. In my opinion the decision to have a knockout heads up was a very good one and be retained for future events. However I believe there a shortfalls in the current points system :

1. The overall result is unfairly weighted to the MTT. The overall points awarded to the MTT is 820 (40+39...+1) , whilst the STTs are 180 each ((8+7....+1)*5), almost making the result of the first two rounds irrelevant.

2. Both the events have a very flat structure, with the ladder starting from the first hand and very low percentage of the total prizes (points) to 1st place - only 4.8% in MTT (40/820). This does nothing but to encourage tight play as there is no incentive to play for first place and every incentive to sit tight and ladder up - this suits my own personal style but I am sure not that APAT really want to encourage this.

3. The points result is often decided well before the MTT gets into the latter stages of the final table as happened last year and this year. This is because the majority of the points have already been allocated before the final table (only 45 of the total 820 available points are left to be allocated). All final table players already have a minimum of 31 points, with only a maximum of 9 more points to win. 

My suggestions for the a new point structure would be as follows :

STTs 1st place - 3 points,  2nd - 2 points, 3rd - 1 point
MTT 1st  place - 14 points, 2nd - 10 points, 3rd - 6 points, 4th - 4 points, 5th - 3 points, 6th -2 points, 7th - 1 point.

Total Points for Holdem STT  5x6 = 30.
Total points for Omaha STT  5x6 = 30.
Total points for MTT                  = 40.

Personally I think this structure would resolve most of the issues highlighted above. It would mean of course that a significant number of players would score no points but I think we are man enough to take it !!

Please be assured this is certainly not a criticism of this or past events - but a suggested improvement for future events.

Looking forward to the next one (if selected) already. 

[dwh103]

This was my first international team event and I really enjoyed despite the disappointing results for the Wales teams. Congrats to the APAT management team for the exceptional organisation yet again.

Like some others I wonder however if the structure of the points system could be tweaked. In my opinion the decision to have a knockout heads up was a very good one and be retained for future events. However I believe there a shortfalls in the current points system :

1. The overall result is unfairly weighted to the MTT. The overall points awarded to the MTT is 820 (40+39...+1) , whilst the STTs are 180 each ((8+7....+1)*5), almost making the result of the first two rounds irrelevant.

2. Both the events have a very flat structure, with the ladder starting from the first hand and very low percentage of the total prizes (points) to 1st place - only 4.8% in MTT (40/820). This does nothing but to encourage tight play as there is no incentive to play for first place and every incentive to sit tight and ladder up - this suits my own personal style but I am sure not that APAT really want to encourage this.

3. The points result is often decided well before the MTT gets into the latter stages of the final table as happened last year and this year. This is because the majority of the points have already been allocated before the final table (only 45 of the total 820 available points are left to be allocated). All final table players already have a minimum of 31 points, with only a maximum of 9 more points to win. 

My suggestions for the a new point structure would be as follows :

STTs 1st place - 3 points,  2nd - 2 points, 3rd - 1 point
MTT 1st  place - 14 points, 2nd - 10 points, 3rd - 6 points, 4th - 4 points, 5th - 3 points, 6th -2 points, 7th - 1 point.

Total Points for Holdem STT  5x6 = 30.
Total points for Omaha STT  5x6 = 30.
Total points for MTT                  = 40.

Personally I think this structure would resolve most of the issues highlighted above. It would mean of course that a significant number of players would score no points but I think we are man enough to take it !!

Please be assured this is certainly not a criticism of this or past events - but a suggested improvement for future events.

Looking forward to the next one (if selected) already. 

+1

Was thinking about this myself whilst watching the updates. Cannot agree more with having a steeper points structure and more equitable points between SNGs and MTTs, and not paying everyone in the MTT.

Should you really be awarding someone folding for 2-3 hours to 20th with 50% of what the winner gets?

[LombBomb]

I have heard a few people say that the MTT points are out of sync with the STT points, my suggestion is quite a simple one, make the points for the STT"s worth 5 times as much i.e 40,35,30 etc etc.  I think all former captains should get together for an online chat and come up with a standard points structure that is sanctioned by all countries which take part in team events. Personally I am happy to play under what ever scoring system Apat decides, however I have heard the comments about the MTT points on numerous occasions and feel consultation/debate is the best way forward to avoid future comments which I feel detracts from the efforts of the successful teams.

Agree 100% with this, suggested the same points structure to the Scottish lads at the weekend

[Chipaccrual]

I"ve just been playing around with the points for the weekend (Doesn"t matter what I do, I can"t make the Welsh and Irish performance score more   )

There have been a few discussions around the scoring, here"s a couple of reworkings to aid the discussion.

F1 style staggered points

STT"s = 15pts, 12pts, 10pts, 8pts, 6pts, 4pts, 2pts, 0pts

MTT"s (Top 20 only) = 40pts, 35pts, 30pts, 24pts, 20pts, 18pts, 16pts, 14pts, 12pts, 10pts, 9pts.....1pt

This is how the table would have looked

Team	NLHE	PLO	MTT				TOTAL
Scotland B	48	42	81				171
England B	30	51	53				134
England A	51	32	29				112
England C	30	50	30				110
Wales B	48	36	9				93
Wales A	34	30	21				85
Scotland A	25	31	26				82
Ireland A	24	18	40				82