Couple more PLO Hands

[hi_am_chris]

2 hands that i would like advice on please ...

Hand A

Only info is that the villain seems to be reraising pot pre all the time and then c betting pot on the flop, how do we procede?

Pre flop i could 3 bet the original open but having seen the villain reraise the last two hands i don"t really need this pot to be getting stupid pre.

http://www.holdemmanager.net
PL Omaha $0.10(BB) Replayer Game#12234760519

STILLITILTIS ($18.90)
arcas56 ($15.77)
Qbeer79 ($6.34)
Pet_Beatman ($10)
Roflen ($20.86)
chrishiam ($10)

STILLITILTIS posts (SB) $0.05
arcas56 posts (BB) $0.10

Dealt to chrishiam      Th  
fold, fold,
Roflen raises to $0.30
chrishiam calls $0.30
STILLITILTIS raises to $1.30
fold,
Roflen calls $1
chrishiam calls $1
FLOP ($4)  Ts    
STILLITILTIS bets $3.80
Roflen folds
chrishiam ...


Hand B

I could limp along pre or raise bigger pre but either way i now have position in the hand, the flops kind of weird because i sort of flop everything but also can be absolutely crushed, do we c bet or check back the flop??

http://www.holdemmanager.net
PL Omaha $0.10(BB) Replayer Game#12234784634

Roflen ($16.22)
markobuen ($11.97)
vickerycreek ($9.24)
chrishiam ($10)
Tasik222 ($17.58)

Roflen posts (SB) $0.05
markobuen posts (BB) $0.10

Dealt to chrishiam     A d     Td  
vickerycreek calls $0.10
chrishiam raises to $0.30
fold,
Roflen calls $0.25
markobuen calls $0.20
vickerycreek calls $0.20
FLOP ($1.20)      
Roflen checks
markobuen checks
vickerycreek checks
chrishiam...

[Marty719]

Hand 1:  I 3b this pre w/ 100x in this spot.  Ur reason for not 3bn is tht villain has potted the last 2 hands, but our hand flops so well, that we are more than happy to play swollen pots IP vs aggro opponents.  Assuming villain c/bets close to 100%, there are so many flops whr we have enough equity to just r/c, and will also have fe vs his wide range.  It will also make flops easier to play when we have a lower spr.

As played, and vs a villain we perceive to be wider pre, I just put it in on this flop.  The only hand we are very worried about is draws tht crush ours, and we even have 40% vs AAXX.  Not too happy about it, but think we have enough equity vs his range to just put it in.


Hand 2:  This is a fold pre.  Its a big mistake to see ds hands, and see value.  Our hand is very disjointed, our club draw is easily dominated, and we still have players behind.  As played, b/c this flop.  We can get it in free-rolling vs wheels.  Betting can also get some better fd"s to fold flop which is obv a great result.  Think I b/f a naked A5 here, but w/ the 7 adding to our equity (never drawing dead - woohoo) and the clubs, I stack off here 100x deep.

[hi_am_chris]

Cheers Marty

[hi_am_chris]

How should i look at hands with top set value like weak jacks, queens and kings? is limp calling one bet weak pre?

[Marty719]

How should i look at hands with top set value like weak jacks, queens and kings? is limp calling one bet weak pre?

A lot is dependant on the table, your position and villain tendancies.  In lp, we can happily raise these hands unopened.  From ep, we can open good JJXX, QQXX hands, but fold the more junky combos.  If someone limps, we can limp behind with a lot of these hands, and iso some of the stronger combos.  In general, having the initiative with these hands can make them easier to play down the streets, so opening yourself will usually be a better option than limping.  Opening will also help you define ranges from players behind, esp at the lower levels where the 3b ranges are usually fairly face-up.

[Pilf]

I agree with Marty on the 1st hand that you should be 4 betting here, it"s a perfect spot for this. The 4 bet size can be debated but a lot will depend on dynamics and how you played previously. Not much I can add.

The 2nd hand is more difficult. Marty would fold pre (In fact he states it as a matter of fact!) but I don"t think I would, nor do I feel this is a huge leak in my game. Again, as always table dynamics play a huge part but I don"t hate a raise preflop here at all. It is not just a double suited hand, it"s a double suited connected hand with one suited Ace. Yes we are not fully connected and no one is ever playing a 7 high flush like its a flush, but they are blockers and may well come in useful later in the hand.
I personally think open folding this hand 5 handed is too nitty. We aren"t on the button but a raise with a limper has a high chance of giving us position post flop as happens here. I make it 4bbs tho usually (I probably pot it on a mass tablng mission).

I also disagree about how to play the flop. I am NEVER getting 100bbs in on this flop, NEVER EVER (And we can be drawing dead to a spilt with about 10% equity to the split which isn"t a great spot!). We are absolutely crushed by anyone wanting to get their entire stack in here having only committed 3 bbs to the pot (unless we have notes to the contrary which we do not have here).

So I bet about 2/3rds pot with a view to calling a pot raise from anyone and reassessing the turn.

PS - If you want to come round for a PLO session or want to do some online with Mikagoo and Skype after the FT monies come back then give me a shout.

[Marty719]

I also disagree about how to play the flop. I am NEVER getting 100bbs in on this flop, NEVER EVER (And we can be drawing dead to a spilt with about 10% equity to the split which isn"t a great spot!). We are absolutely crushed by anyone wanting to get their entire stack in here having only committed 3 bbs to the pot (unless we have notes to the contrary which we do not have here).

So I bet about 2/3rds pot with a view to calling a pot raise from anyone and reassessing the turn.

Cool - gld this thread kept gng fwiw - my main game is HU PLO so my 6m game may have some cross-over leaks, but I think we will have to agree to disagree about the strength of AT75ds in this format.

As for the never getting 100x in on this flop...would that not be even more of a reason for us to fold pre if u r hating ur life this much wen we flop close to as good as we can hope. 

As for anyone wanting to get their money in having us crushed, we have to take into account times where opponents stack off with bare A5 hands.  At the lower levels, opponents over-estimate total hand strength a lot.  I def dnt advocate stacking off w/ naked A5xx hands here, but with our gs + fd, Im going with it. 

When you say, u prefer r/c to r/get it in...what are your plans for blank turns?

[hi_am_chris]

Another quick hand ... will post up untill the turn but would love advice pre and post flop.

http://www.holdemmanager.net
PL Omaha $0.10(BB) Replayer Game#12202054888

dodgydunc ($31.14)
burroasesino ($9.65)
Aromator ($26.40)
chrishiam ($12.10)
DonkeyOT ($6)
hervoton16 ($10)

dodgydunc posts (SB) $0.05
burroasesino posts (BB) $0.10
DonkeyOT posts $0.05

Dealt to chrishiam        
Aromator calls $0.10
chrishiam raises to $0.40
DonkeyOT calls $0.35
fold,
dodgydunc calls $0.35
burroasesino calls $0.30
fold,
FLOP ($1.70)      
dodgydunc checks
burroasesino bets $1.21
chrishiam calls $1.21
DonkeyOT calls $1.21
dodgydunc folds
TURN ($5.33)        
burroasesino checks
chrishiam ......
DonkeyOT ........

[Fatcatstu]

Dont mind the raise pre with this hand at all. Infact, i probably do the same myself, im a sucker for double suited roughly connect hands :p

On the flop i am pretty torn between flat calling and putting a raise in, but i suppose that a flat call means that you arent running the risk of being bet off it, so dont really mind.

The turn card is Gin really, and i am betting 3/4 pot every time here to start getting it built, and trying to thin the field out a little as we may be able to scare off a higher flush draw just maybe

[Marty719]

Another quick hand ... will post up untill the turn but would love advice pre and post flop.

http://www.holdemmanager.net
PL Omaha $0.10(BB) Replayer Game#12202054888

dodgydunc ($31.14)
burroasesino ($9.65)
Aromator ($26.40)
chrishiam ($12.10)
DonkeyOT ($6)
hervoton16 ($10)

dodgydunc posts (SB) $0.05
burroasesino posts (BB) $0.10
DonkeyOT posts $0.05

Dealt to chrishiam        
Aromator calls $0.10
chrishiam raises to $0.40
DonkeyOT calls $0.35
fold,
dodgydunc calls $0.35
burroasesino calls $0.30
fold,
FLOP ($1.70)      
dodgydunc checks
burroasesino bets $1.21
chrishiam calls $1.21
DonkeyOT calls $1.21
dodgydunc folds
TURN ($5.33)        
burroasesino checks
chrishiam ......
DonkeyOT ........

I play the same, and lead $3.5 ott to set up a river jam.  wpwp.

[hi_am_chris]

I bet 2.50 , def prefer your bet sizing, get reraised in from the shortstack and call anyways, i think when i posted this last night i thought id got it in behind on the turn to bigger straight but turns out he just had two pair

quick hand again, assuming pre flop my play is pretty standard? I have stats on the player but at the time no hud as it"s not working for me on the party poker network. I call the flop in position against the agressor so he can barrell the turn and also gives a chance for the other player to put money in/squeeze with worse. Can we just fold the turn or given no reads do we have to either jam or call/call to keep worse in??

http://www.holdemmanager.net
PL Omaha $0.10(BB) Replayer Game#12205682837

Perkele669 ($9.39)
Munchimo ($7.56)
chrishiam ($10.50)
edz78 ($12.72)
MrFarum ($16.82)

Perkele669 posts (SB) $0.05
Munchimo posts (BB) $0.10

Dealt to chrishiam        
chrishiam raises to $0.30
fold,
MrFarum calls $0.30
fold,
Munchimo raises to $1.25
chrishiam calls $0.95
MrFarum calls $0.95
FLOP ($3.80)      
Munchimo bets $2.50
chrishiam calls $2.50
MrFarum folds
TURN ($8.80)        
Munchimo bets $3.81 (AI)
chrishiam ...

[Marty719]

Yea - pre is standard.  Flop seems standard vs his sizing.  If he went closer to full pot, I"d probs just get it in otf, but flats better vs smaller sizings.  Never folding to turn jam.  

[Fatcatstu]

Pre is fine, flop is ok to, wouldnt mind a raise there tho.

If you ever fold this turn ever ever ever you need to be banned from playing IMO. Just call, if he has AAxx then so be it. Reload move on.

[hi_am_chris]

if u now knew his 3 bet percentage of 450 hands is 1 percent would that change your mind?

[Marty719]

if u now knew his 3 bet percentage of 450 hands is 1 percent would that change your mind?

Nope.  We can hope this is the time he decided to 3b the AKJT  

If villain was deeper then it might become more of a decision, but when villain shoves for