Mental Game - The Process Model

[VBlue]

In preparation for the coming month and for my next blog epsiode, I want to achieve a few immediate changes to my game.

The Process Model is explained by Jared Tendler, in The Mental Game of Poker, as a cyclical approach to playing poker (or any game for that matter). It takes in Preparation--Performance--Results--Evaluation--Analysis. I want to concern myself with the three stages which involve work away from the tables.

My questions to you all:

Preparation - How do you prepare? What do you do before you start a session playing poker? Physical preparation and/or mental preparation? Inspirational - listening to a piece of music/reviewing goals? Setting session goals? Reviewing hands?

Evaluation - How do you evaluate your session performance? When do you do this (straight afterwards is Jared"s recommendation)? What elements of your play do you evaluate (I am working on introducing a scoring system evaluating Concentration, Focus, Session Goals).

Analysis - How much time do you spend in between sessions? What do you analyise? How does it help? What tools/forums/etc do you use?

[VBlue]

There is a thread above this post which is called "It"s Been Very Quiet On the Forum This Week".

This post has had over 70 views, but not a single contribution from the APAT community.

I strongly believe that Jared Tendler is one of, if not the, leading experts in Mental Game strategy.

The Process Model is a big part of a winning approach to playing poker and improving your game.

I know there are some very good players and some successful players in this community.

Are we not able to get some discussion going on this?

I like biscuits as much, if not more, than the next man/woman (Chocolate Hob Nobs, if you want my opinion), but this is a poker forum.  I know that I have not been a huge part of this community in the past, but I have tried to get involved on the forums over the years.

Does anyone have anything to say on this?

Thanks all.

[Fatcatstu]

Preparation wise, I do very little. Although before the second day of the Europeans 2009, we utilised the spa in our hotel and whilst floating around like a whale I was visualising the win. Wong mention how that turned out as I will be accused of bragging!!

Evaluation  wise, mine usually consists of calling myself a donkey most of the time!! But I look at how my h fun I have had playing poker, which I get from playing a slightly cavalier style of poker and think to myself that I have enjoyed it more than I would just sitting and folding. At some point this will change I am sure, but until then so be it

Analysis we usually do as a group of mates (we are largely live players) and its really helpful, as in our group of players we have ALOT of live tourny experience and we all have differing styles. It"s good to listen to the likes of david3103 or phil_tc or Brian "erimus" Harland as they are all damned good players in their own right

[AAroddersAA]

I am assuming we are taking about online poker here. My preparation for live games is generally terrible to say the least, I am not really a live player though.

Preparation - Not anything major, just make sure your mind set is right. The problem with online poker especially cash games is they do not stop. You can play anytime. It is not usually right to play too soon after getting up or straight after getting home from work. Don"t play when too tried or when you are just not in the right frame of mind. This does not need to be anything major either, but if something has pissed you off in work and is likely to play on your mind and interfere with your focus don"t play. If it an early morning session I make sure I have at least had a shower and a tea/coffee first and have been up for at least 90 minutes.

During the session is also important. One of the most important skills is quitting. If the game is bad or you start to get unlucky and it is annoying you then take a break. Go for a walk or watch something on TV whichever you prefer at the time. Music is good as well sometimes. Don"t play for too long, this is my biggest leak and it can be expensive as you stop playing your best game and leaks creep in. I for example start calling when I should be 3-betting and chasing draws when I should be getting it in/folding.

Evaluation/Analysis - I don"t think it needs to be done straight afterwards. You will have used Poker Tracker or Holdem Manager during the session so should have all the hands there to review. I will talk about cash games as there are better people who can tell you about tournaments. I tend to look at the decent wins and losses first. With the losses could I have done anything better to prevent it, usually you will know. Look at filters on hands that went to the flop, is there a spot where you could have picked up a pot when you didn"t, did you try in a bad spot. The more you look at these the more familiar you become with them and the better you get at making decisions at the table. Look at the flop and evaluate the way you have played it. Look to see if there are spots where you should have picked up a pot on the river, are there good spots to bluff raise the river that you missed. If you find something on a player that could be useful make a note in your poker client.

Other tools you can use are Pokerstove (I use Odds Oracle myself, but Pokerstove is free). Forums are great resources, the Strategy section of this one is good but personally if I really don"t know what I should have done in a spot it gets posted here http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?board=24.0, the responses are honest and really very good, these are some of the best players in the country. If you need help using the tools (mainly Odds Oracle as it can be quite hard then there are a fair few people on this board who can help you - PM me if you like)

Post the hands on your blog convert them first and people will comment.Oh one thing even if you disagree with feedback given, and sometimes you will, don"t get defensive about it people are always trying to help.

People to talk too about hands helps as well. If I am really stuck on a run or something I tend to ask advice from people I know are good. There are some people on here who I won"t mention as they may not want to be mentioned.

Also take part on the discussion on the PHA board (link I posted above). It is sometimes a bit intimidating and I don"t always understand what they mean but I just tend to ask them and they then explain. It occasionally goes over my head but I have learnt a lot by posting in there and still do. The strategy section on here allows that as well and is a more comfortable environment for your rec player. However there are not many posts. If you do post there PLEASE make your replies more than a sentence. A post like

"I"m folding here"

is not use to anybody least of all you (it is just basically spam imo). You should be able to explain why you think a certain line is best and when you type up a post sometimes you will find that what you think is actually wrong and sometimes people will make points that make you rethink it. It also enables you to make contacts for discussing your game with when you want some help.

To do all this properly is hard work and you have to enjoy doing it really to get the most out of it. I would have thought there are some people on APAT who can add a bit to this so hopefully we will see some more responses soon.

Maybe PM Noble1 if he doesn"t mind be recommending him, this sounds like the kind of thing he is great at.

[noble1]

Are we not able to get some discussion going on this?

Its very easy to delude yourself in poker, the luck and variance in poker can mean you might make a terrible play on the river for example bluffing in a spot where your opponent needed to fold 35% but he was actually only folding 10%, he happens to have the very bottom of his range and folds.. I"M A GENIUS we think to ourselves, oh no your not, ""you suck you silly tosser""
and so the cycle goes on, this is the sort of stuff that keeps a lot of players from improving imho...
Now i might be old school in my views on mental clap trap, i think its a load of bollo#ks but heyho if you can make a living peddling this magical cure in the guise of psychology then fine..

Preparation - How do you prepare?
if i feel like playing then i play...

Evaluation - How do you evaluate your session performance?
hmmm i constantly think about it during the game and how all my plays knit together both past and future..
from a cash game point of view looking at just one session in isolation is not the best way rather combing through 1000"s of hands and thinking long term is my goal...

Analysis - How much time do you spend in between sessions?
when i first stated poker then the answer is every waking moment just about...
What do you analyise?
everything, patterns of play, i try to spot how plays my opponents make in certain situations or certain board textures how this will effect there ranges in other spots, i try to think what they were thinking so i can tune into them if that makes sense? etc etc blah blah
How does it help?
improves my logic and how i view others strategy/level of thinking and understanding of what they are doing so i can make what i hope is the correct adjustment... for example in the games i play metagame implications have an impact so my normal style of play requires me to be able to play any pre or post style comfortably, i always try to stay deceptive in no limit hold"em adding a new gear or two to my game which i hope i can improve a lot as a player, so i experiment a lot [maybe to much sometimes ]  my objective is always to try to make my opponents think they have adjusted to my play, then i switch the gears on them forcing them to play this constant guessing game so that they make plenty of mistakes, well more than that i will make i hope
What tools/forums/etc do you use?
2+2 years ago when there was a good group of lads/lasses who debated without taking things to personal and could play devils advocate giving some good reasoning/logic for certain plays etc etc..
tools wise - pokerstove and CRev calculator , a piece of paper, pencil, rubber , a rudimentary knowledge of poker maths, a hand history replayer so i can replay games back looking for any info i missed or misinterpreted/misunderstood at the time or did not apply the info i gained [applies to logic]

Are we not able to get some discussion going on this?
thats my tuppence worth, all in all work bloody hard to understand as much as you can about poker and people, the information war goes - gather, process then adjust.. get good at that and you wont need all this mental game mumbo jumbo

disclaimer - just my views right or wrong

[VBlue]

I am assuming we are taking about online poker here. My preparation for live games is generally terrible to say the least, I am not really a live player though.

Yes - online poker.  Sorry, I should have made that clear.

Preparation - Not anything major, just make sure your mind set is right. The problem with online poker especially cash games is they do not stop. You can play anytime. It is not usually right to play too soon after getting up or straight after getting home from work. Don"t play when too tried or when you are just not in the right frame of mind. This does not need to be anything major either, but if something has pissed you off in work and is likely to play on your mind and interfere with your focus don"t play. If it an early morning session I make sure I have at least had a shower and a tea/coffee first and have been up for at least 90 minutes.

Jared advocates that this pre-game preparation is very important and if missed can result in the early part of our session spent warming-up, instead of being warmed up ready to play from the 1st hand, which could cause us value from our session.  I like the stuff about showering and having a drink, doing your best to be in the right frame of mind.

Some other ideas are to have some specific goals for the session.  I have been working on pre-flop aggression recently, so might have a goal to 4-bet every time I am 3-bet, as I am experimenting with this in my game currently.  I might also have some other goals to ensure that my focus and concentration are good throughout - like turning off other online distractions (social networks), or perhaps a goal to make a note on each opponent I come across during the session.

I don"t agree with the bit about being tired though.  It is important that we learn to play in different states and it can be sometimes profitable, if the game is good, to play our B game, or even our C game for a session.  Also, to improve our C game and B game we have to focus on the back-end of our skills and playing when we are not at our best can help improve us.

During the session is also important. One of the most important skills is quitting. If the game is bad or you start to get unlucky and it is annoying you then take a break. Go for a walk or watch something on TV whichever you prefer at the time. Music is good as well sometimes. Don"t play for too long, this is my biggest leak and it can be expensive as you stop playing your best game and leaks creep in. I for example start calling when I should be 3-betting and chasing draws when I should be getting it in/folding.

Again, with reference to quitting, similar thoughts as to those I have shared above apply.  I do think regular breaks are important and sure, if you are going to go  on monkey-tilt and blow your roll, then quitting is certainly the right thing to do.

[Des]

I think Jarad having a required registration on the page you"re linking to is a barrier to discussion.  

[VBlue]

I think Jarad having a required registration on the page you"re linking to is a barrier to discussion. 

Sorry Des.  I did not think that through.  It isn"t important to the discussion so I have removed it from the OP.

[VBlue]

Evaluation/Analysis - I don"t think it needs to be done straight afterwards. You will have used Poker Tracker or Holdem Manager during the session so should have all the hands there to review. I will talk about cash games as there are better people who can tell you about tournaments. I tend to look at the decent wins and losses first. With the losses could I have done anything better to prevent it, usually you will know. Look at filters on hands that went to the flop, is there a spot where you could have picked up a pot when you didn"t, did you try in a bad spot. The more you look at these the more familiar you become with them and the better you get at making decisions at the table. Look at the flop and evaluate the way you have played it. Look to see if there are spots where you should have picked up a pot on the river, are there good spots to bluff raise the river that you missed. If you find something on a player that could be useful make a note in your poker client.

Evaluation is something which Jared advocates should always be done immediately after the session.  This is not a deper Analysis stage, but purely some kind of an evaluation of your play.  What was your focus like?  Your concentration?  Did you achieve your session goals?  How did variance affect your results?

I might score 1-5 in each area I evaluate - for focus 1 would be mashing buttons, 5 would be giving full consideration to the table and individual player dynamics in reaching each decision I make in the session.

It may take only a few minutes to complete this evaluation.  As in professional sports where on leaving the field a football team would go back to the dressing room and have an immeidate evaluation of their performance.

The stuff on utilising HUD stats into your analysis is very useful - thanks.

[VBlue]

Other tools you can use are Pokerstove (I use Odds Oracle myself, but Pokerstove is free). Forums are great resources, the Strategy section of this one is good but personally if I really don"t know what I should have done in a spot it gets posted here http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?board=24.0, the responses are honest and really very good, these are some of the best players in the country. If you need help using the tools (mainly Odds Oracle as it can be quite hard then there are a fair few people on this board who can help you - PM me if you like)

Post the hands on your blog convert them first and people will comment.Oh one thing even if you disagree with feedback given, and sometimes you will, don"t get defensive about it people are always trying to help.

People to talk too about hands helps as well. If I am really stuck on a run or something I tend to ask advice from people I know are good. There are some people on here who I won"t mention as they may not want to be mentioned.

Also take part on the discussion on the PHA board (link I posted above). It is sometimes a bit intimidating and I don"t always understand what they mean but I just tend to ask them and they then explain. It occasionally goes over my head but I have learnt a lot by posting in there and still do. The strategy section on here allows that as well and is a more comfortable environment for your rec player. However there are not many posts. If you do post there PLEASE make your replies more than a sentence. A post like

"I"m folding here"

is not use to anybody least of all you (it is just basically spam imo). You should be able to explain why you think a certain line is best and when you type up a post sometimes you will find that what you think is actually wrong and sometimes people will make points that make you rethink it. It also enables you to make contacts for discussing your game with when you want some help.

To do all this properly is hard work and you have to enjoy doing it really to get the most out of it. I would have thought there are some people on APAT who can add a bit to this so hopefully we will see some more responses soon.

Maybe PM Noble1 if he doesn"t mind be recommending him, this sounds like the kind of thing he is great at.

For the last part, I do use pokerstove, but certainly need to start spending more time on equity calculations, something I want to do a lot more of.

I do post hands on another forum I am a member of and the discussions are in depth and have intelligent contributors.

I am also signed up for a 12 month online poker course which is forming the major part of my game analysis.  I am pretty new to HM2 so will consider your advice and may come back to ask some better questions on how I can get the most out of the package.

Thanks for your detailed contribution Rodders.

[VBlue]

Its very easy to delude yourself in poker, the luck and variance in poker can mean you might make a terrible play on the river for example bluffing in a spot where your opponent needed to fold 35% but he was actually only folding 10%, he happens to have the very bottom of his range and folds.. I"M A GENIUS we think to ourselves, oh no your not, ""you suck you silly tosser""

Agreed - variance can easily delude us into thinking we are better than we really are.  I hope that by finding the time to really look back through HHs and to perform equity calcs, share hands on forums, etc. will keep me grounded.

[VBlue]

Now i might be old school in my views on mental clap trap, i think its a load of bollo#ks but heyho if you can make a living peddling this magical cure in the guise of psychology then fine..

I respect your view, but I am happy that there are enough referees for Jared in the results he has got with his students, some top players incuded, and having attended online skype session with him and got 1:1 online forum feedback from questions posed to him, that he knows his onions and has a lot to contribute to helping me improve my game.

[VBlue]

Evaluation - How do you evaluate your session performance?
hmmm i constantly think about it during the game and how all my plays knit together both past and future..
from a cash game point of view looking at just one session in isolation is not the best way rather combing through 1000"s of hands and thinking long term is my goal...

Analysis -
What do you analyise?
everything, patterns of play, i try to spot how plays my opponents make in certain situations or certain board textures how this will effect there ranges in other spots, i try to think what they were thinking so i can tune into them if that makes sense? etc etc blah blah

How does it help?
improves my logic and how i view others strategy/level of thinking and understanding of what they are doing so i can make what i hope is the correct adjustment... for example in the games i play metagame implications have an impact so my normal style of play requires me to be able to play any pre or post style comfortably, i always try to stay deceptive in no limit hold"em adding a new gear or two to my game which i hope i can improve a lot as a player, so i experiment a lot [maybe to much sometimes ]  my objective is always to try to make my opponents think they have adjusted to my play, then i switch the gears on them forcing them to play this constant guessing game so that they make plenty of mistakes, well more than that i will make i hope

Loads of good stuff here thanks.  Food for thought.

[mporter123]

Jared advocates that this pre-game preparation is very important and if missed can result in the early part of our session spent warming-up, instead of being warmed up ready to play from the 1st hand, which could cause us value from our session. 

I have been working on pre-flop aggression recently, so might have a goal to 4-bet every time I am 3-bet, as I am experimenting with this in my game currently.

It is important that we learn to play in different states and it can be sometimes profitable, if the game is good, to play our B game, or even our C game for a session.  Also, to improve our C game and B game we have to focus on the back-end of our skills and playing when we are not at our best can help improve us.

Is Jared expecting me to run "Rocky like" up some steps before I start every MTT session? This pre-game preparation stuff doesn"t wash with me, we are playing online poker not conducting brain surgery. Do enough to make sure you are comfortable when you are playing is about it.

Arbitrary rules like 4 betting every time somebody 3bets you seems ridiculous and surely is just burning money. I don't know how this is going to help your game.

Rather than improving your B and C game, why don't we just play A game all the time?  

Do you play cash or MTT"s?

[AAroddersAA]

I like Jaffa Cakes but not that big on Digestives. I might buy some Hob-Nobs later as I have never really tried them.

As far as poker goes, yeah The Mental Game of Poker is a book I would not mind reading and I am sure I will do at some point. It has had a lot of good feedback as has Jared Tendler. Not sure what his background as a poker player is (not sure if it matters) but as far as mental game strategy goes he is top notch.

I think Noble got the preparation bit spot on actually. We should play if we feel like playing. There are plenty of other things to do if we don"t feel like playing. I think it links with what I was saying about making sure you are awake and feeling ready before logging on. These have to be sensible parts of what I guess would be mental preparation. Sometime when I miss this out and play when I know I should not be I end up losing at the start of the session and spending the rest of it digging myself out of a hole so what you say is logical. I am guessing it differs for each of us slightly though so we have to find what works best for us.

At the end of a session you know how well you have played. I guess there is nothing wrong with giving yourself a score in a few areas if it helps. I am interested in session goals to be honest, I used to try and give myself goals but have tried not to do that so much and just play each hand on it merit and play for as long as I feel that I am playing well, taking breaks etc as I said.

What do we think are good session goals to have?

I assume the 4-bet every time you are 3-bet was just a hypothetical example. A goal like that should be something like "profitably 4-bet light" as there are spots where you just can"t do it but I see where you are going with the idea of it.