APAT League Hand - No.2

[Waz1892]

Like buses..

Last night in the 5-handed NLHE game I had this scenario against an accomplished player.  I hope he reads this and corrects anything I"ve missed, or puts his view on this hand. (And corrects any errors contained within, as my recollection won"t be as great or detailed I"m sure)

Blinds 15/30, I"ve been lucky enough to double up already and sit on around 11k.

"villian" min-raises the on the button for the 3rd time in a row (although not always a min raise). I re-raise to 180 with  

Called and a flop is Q8X rainbow (I think)

Pot is 405

What do we do now?
What do we think we are up against?

Will complete later...

[Charlie44]

IMO you are up against a wide range of hands, although probably not a premium hand or garbage. So perhaps  any pairs less than jacks, most aces less than AQ, any broadway hand or suited connectors, and some other suited cards. There"s no point in slow playing this so bet about half the pot, and expect to get called with any hands with a queen or eight, or sometimes may be floated. Your losing to very few hands probably just pocket eights or X.

What is the prize split ? - this may affect the way you should play it in later streets.

[Waz1892]

IMO you are up against a wide range of hands, although probably not a premium hand or garbage. So perhaps  any pairs less than jacks, most aces less than AQ, any broadway hand or suited connectors, and some other suited cards. There"s no point in slow playing this so bet about half the pot, and expect to get called with any hands with a queen or eight, or sometimes may be floated. Your losing to very few hands probably just pocket eights or X.

What is the prize split ? - this may affect the way you should play it in later streets.

34 players top 5 pay.

[deanp27]

Just bet 250 or something. Call if he raises.

[Waz1892]

I bet 3/4 of the pot and was re-raised.

His range now?   Should i be aware of 888 or QQQ now?

Do I call or Re-re raise or shove.

[Santino67]

What"s villain"s stack Warren? Do you reckon he flats your 3 bet pre with QQ? The other concern is 88 and maybe more likely, but would you re-raise on a dry rainbow board with a spiked set? Do you think the villain would? Could just as likely be AQ/KQ or similar? What size the re-raise, assuming you"ve bet 300? If you call the re-raise, what"s the plan on turn? Bet out or check/raise if card looks like a blank?

[Waz1892]

What"s villain"s stack Warren? Do you reckon he flats your 3 bet pre with QQ? The other concern is 88 and maybe more likely, but would you re-raise on a dry rainbow board with a spiked set? Do you think the villain would? Could just as likely be AQ/KQ or similar? What size the re-raise, assuming you"ve bet 300? If you call the re-raise, what"s the plan on turn? Bet out or check/raise if card looks like a blank?

Starting stack was around 6-7k im pretty sure.  re-raise was about 1000.

sorry noting taking obv not a forte!  Rare i post on this thread, so I"ll have to get better!  In my head I was commited to the hand, and was looking at his stack more than having a plan. (i know, i know   )

[WYoung83]

Do u mean he has raised BTN 3rd time in a row, or 3rd hand in a row. Also has it folded to him each time so he has been able open the pot. And you are in the SB i gather?

Its a decant flop for you, have to bet about 1/2 ish and see what happens.

(Oh sorry just read on a bit futher,)

It depends on history with player, vs unknow i would 3x it here and try to get it in. If he is really spewy then i sometimes call and let him fire turn and river, but you can click it back and induce a shove. I wouldnt be worried about QQs because i imagine he would 4 bet QQs pre.

Judging from the Op when you say Q8x rainbow it looks like he has 88s imo. Unlucky

[AAroddersAA]

Preflop. He has minraised called. As he is likely a reg I am almost certainly making a lot of adjustments but this is my default line and thoughts. I am assuming his stack to be about 5K.

His raise OTB could in theory be any two cards but in actual fact is more likely to be something decent. Him calling your 3-bet backs this up.

So his range is in my opinion

22 - QQ
AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ, JQ maybe
A few other random combos like SC"s etc JT sooted maybe.

I have plenty of combos in that range that I beat that call, not many I lose too. I don"t honestly see too many 2 pair combos so I am only scared of a set and I usually don"t worry about set"s.

I would bet about 300. When he raises I reassess and reckon most players do this with the following hands

QQ, 88, XX (set), AQ, KQ.
Maybe include the odd TT or 99 combo and the odd total air ball.

I am calling as really AQ and KQ should fold to a 3-bet and sets are going to get it in fast as you like.

It puts me in an awkward spot on the turn as I have to check to him unless a really scary card falls off. If he checks back though I can be pretty sure I am good and try and get some value on the turn. If he bets out on the turn I might just shove it there and then and not be surprised when AQ or KQ called.

Really need to know stacks and bet sizes to understand the hand properly.

[Waz1892]

Do u mean he has raised BTN 3rd time in a row, or 3rd hand in a row. Also has it folded to him each time so he has been able open the pot. And you are in the SB i gather?

Its a decant flop for you, have to bet about 1/2 ish and see what happens.

(Oh sorry just read on a bit futher,)

It depends on history with player, vs unknow i would 3x it here and try to get it in. If he is really spewy then i sometimes call and let him fire turn and river, but you can click it back and induce a shove. I wouldnt be worried about QQs because i imagine he would 4 bet QQs pre.

Judging from the Op when you say Q8x rainbow it looks like he has 88s imo. Unlucky

3rd time raised the button, pretty sure unopened each time.

Player I know is extremely good, much better than me. Only knowledge I have other than his rep, is the 3 button raises

[Waz1892]

Loving the feedback already and learning from it, not only from a note taking viewpoint!!

[Waz1892]

I bet 3/4 of the pot and was re-raised.

His range now?   Should i be aware of 888 or QQQ now?

Do I call or Re-re raise or shove.

Well I choose to go over top once more. My thinking was blurred by my aces, and that I covered him and if I lost I"m back to where I started. Brutally honest, set never entered my head until he shoved on me.

I obv called the 3k odd.

88 was shown. 

See from what I have read should have narrowed it down to qq / 88 and then it"s easier fold.

great views and the thoughts that you are all putting into ranges is something I can use and work on more.

So it"s not a bad beat /  sob story, I went on to win it so I"m doing something right some of the time!

[Swinebag]

Hehe, I was the villain.

You cbet the flop obviously and then I clicked it back. I think you should now be in bluff catching mode.

Call flop reraise then check call turn and river.

You mentioned that you couldn"t get away 5 handed and I agree to some extent, but you should never have committed your stack there on the flop that early in he tourney with 1 pair. The flop was J hi iirc. An "accomplished" (ahem) player will not really stack off with too much that you beat and will probably fold most hands that you beat.

By calling the raise on the flop, you let hands like AJ, QQ and KK value bet the worse hand and other hands may bluff another street, thinking they can get you off AK or maybe AQ.

By 3 betting the flop, I put you on JJ-AA of which one (JJ) was less likely. This made my decision to shove easy as I knew I was getting paid off ( or coolered by JJ)

Well done on winning btw. I think bubbling was about all I deserved last night. I played far from "accomplished" last night, bluffed most of my stack off to Jo, then kept "getting there" to keep myself in it.

[AAroddersAA]

I bet 3/4 of the pot and was re-raised.

His range now?   Should i be aware of 888 or QQQ now?

Do I call or Re-re raise or shove.

Well I choose to go over top once more. My thinking was blurred by my aces, and that I covered him and if I lost I"m back to where I started. Brutally honest, set never entered my head until he shoved on me.

Nor should they, don"t worry about them unless much deeper. Getting it in on this flop is not at all terrible btw. I just think that calling and playing the turn/river wins a bit more in this spot as you help people play well against you can hero fold the likes of AQ and KQ both of which are a far bigger part of his range than sets.

EDIT: Unaware Rob was the opponent definitely calling down rather than 3-betting based purely on my opponent. Rob can easily correctly fold beaten hands here if you 3-bet him.

[WYoung83]

Seems like a cooler. He has raised 3 buttons in a row, you have AA and he flops set. And you also know him to be a good player and most good players play agressive and try to put you into tough spots. Nothing wrong with loosing a chunk here.