APAT National Online Cup - Enter A Team

[GiMac]

If you fold AK, that is up to you, say you want to avoid a race. Simple. There is a huge difference between this, and the example that was shown, but people are merging the 2 into one.

And that is why, justifiably imho, people are requesting clarification. You think there is a huge difference, we think there is a huge difference, but do the rules allow for this leeway or is it black and white? Of course if it is the black and white option then it"s team poker Jim but not as we know it.

[ ] Finally gets the point

If 2 people hadn"t been stupid, would this conversation ever be happening?

APAT have never done anything about "soft play" and I would imagine that if no one does anything stupid like complaining about it, that will stay the same!!!

I really don"t think it is me that is missing the point

The point is someone did complain about it and that"s why this can of worms was opened in the first place!!! lol

[MonkeyMagic]

Look, ask yourself if you would ever do in a non-team game the unusual move you"re considering doing in the team game, and if you can say yes, go ahead and do it.  Then if you get quizzed on it, you"ll be able to state your defence.  If you can"t say yes, it"s wrong.  Don"t do it.

There"s a LOT of situations you"ll be able to say yes in, too.  Hands like A/K do get folded in NON-team games, as do massive pairs against multiple people.  Folding to an all-in with those for only a portion of your stack, that doesn"t happen, unless you really need those chips in a close-to-the-money scenario.  Anyway, big hands DO get folded.  Well, that"s mostly folding stuff, but there are other things too.  What if someone"s all-in (your teamie) and eligible for a side pot, and you raise with nothing, getting rid of your enemy and handing the pot to your teamie? Well, that does happen in normal tournaments, too.  They get ripped apart for it, but it does happen, and those people never had agendas.  They genuinely thought it was a good move, I guess.  A lot of weird stuff happens, even multi-tablers accidentally on purpose mis-clicking fold for 30 chips more.

[AMRN]

This debate will never be resolved like this - everyone has opinions about how the team game should or shouldn"t be played. What we need is a stake in the ground that is definitive, clearly outlining what can and can"t be done, and what is allowable or not allowable.

Bending rules carefully is not a black and white approach, and it will also leave it open to interpretation.

Ultimately, in my opinion, a decision has to be made whether our team games are:
 1. Team games where the objective is to get as many players into the high scoring positions as possible to maximise the success of the team
 Or 2. An MTT where a particular set of players scores are combined to define the winning team.

I believe #2 was the intention of the current team game profile that we use, but also believe that it is unworkable (ie the debates in this thread, and the fact that people will always try and do right by their team mates)

If we are going to continue with a team game, let"s bite the bullet, and do it properly. Let"s allow all aspects of proper team play, including soft play, chip passing, etc, and make it a real strategy game where the team that can carry the most players over the line wins. This could open a whole new strategic aspect for players to look to intercept chips being passed within a team, and could lead to some real levelling scenarios.  Naturally, the network would need to understand what was happening so that their filters don"t auto-report players for rule breaking.

[HOLDorFOLD]

This debate will never be resolved like this - everyone has opinions about how the team game should or shouldn"t be played. What we need is a stake in the ground that is definitive, clearly outlining what can and can"t be done, and what is allowable or not allowable.

Bending rules carefully is not a black and white approach, and it will also leave it open to interpretation.

Ultimately, in my opinion, a decision has to be made whether our team games are:
 1. Team games where the objective is to get as many players into the high scoring positions as possible to maximise the success of the team
 Or 2. An MTT where a particular set of players scores are combined to define the winning team.

I believe #2 was the intention of the current team game profile that we use, but also believe that it is unworkable (ie the debates in this thread, and the fact that people will always try and do right by their team mates)

If we are going to continue with a team game, let"s bite the bullet, and do it properly. Let"s allow all aspects of proper team play, including soft play, chip passing, etc, and make it a real strategy game where the team that can carry the most players over the line wins. This could open a whole new strategic aspect for players to look to intercept chips being passed within a team, and could lead to some real levelling scenarios.  Naturally, the network would need to understand what was happening so that their filters don"t auto-report players for rule breaking.

Summed up team event in two words ...


The latest batch of team games have been brilliant IMO, and despite the odd comment or two, on the whole this thread has produced some valid points and opinions that may hopefully path the way forward ... little steps, all count.

[MintTrav]

If we are going to continue with a team game, let"s bite the bullet, and do it properly. Let"s allow all aspects of proper team play, including soft play, chip passing, etc, and make it a real strategy game where the team that can carry the most players over the line wins.

I agree. It"s what most of us have already been doing. Otherwise we have a team competition with team prizes, where you are not allowed to act in the best interest of your team. It"s not even soft play really, because you are still acting in your own best interest if you pass chips to a team-mate.

[GiMac]

If we are going to continue with a team game, let"s bite the bullet, and do it properly. Let"s allow all aspects of proper team play, including soft play, chip passing, etc, and make it a real strategy game where the team that can carry the most players over the line wins. This could open a whole new strategic aspect for players to look to intercept chips being passed within a team, and could lead to some real levelling scenarios.  Naturally, the network would need to understand what was happening so that their filters don"t auto-report players for rule breaking.

This^^^^^^^^

[MintTrav]

Naturally, the network would need to understand what was happening so that their filters don"t auto-report players for rule breaking.

I"m not sure that"s even necessary. I"m not aware of any players having been picked up by the system. Just a rumpus caused by one trouble-maker who is unlikely to play in the remaining games, combined with an over-reaction that has been rethought, so we can probably just continue as before.

[HOLDorFOLD]

Err, shouldn"t it be Velvet Indulgence in the final not Hitsquad Hitdonks?

[MintTrav]

Err, shouldn"t it be Velvet Indulgence in the final not Hitsquad Hitdonks?

Won"t matter either way.

[Newportlad]

Err, shouldn"t it be Velvet Indulgence in the final not Hitsquad Hitdonks?

Won"t matter either way.

Thats right. You"ll lose to either team.

[MonkeyMagic]

Nah, they"re 20% all-in chance masters.  They"ve got this.  Funny, mine never came in when I ran a K/K into one of their A/A"s!

[DodgyEnd (Tom APAT.be)]

Putting aside the discussion about what is allowed and what not, I think tonight saw team tactics applied to the fullest.

Shakira and us tried everything to get our team over the line... unfortunately for us they beat us by 1 damn point.

But tonight"s match showed that team play like this does add a lot of fun and tactics to the game!!

[DodgyEnd (Tom APAT.be)]

Nah, they"re 20% all-in chance masters.  They"ve got this.  Funny, mine never came in when I ran a K/K into one of their A/A"s!

It was even less than 20% in that deciding hand because if we would have only won the side pot we would have gone to the finals.

But that aside, it was a lot of fun and we both deserved to go through. Next time we"ll be the luckier team

[MonkeyMagic]

Oh yeah, it was kinda good now we were all trying to play within somewhat narrower, but still cloudy rules.  A true team event, where anything goes, and it"s upto the other teams to stop it if they don"t like it, that would be so cool.

[MintTrav]

Hold on a minute, our player only got lucky on a hand right at the end, after we had been tremendously unlucky throughout the whole final table. Remember that we would have been out of sight if Woody hadn"t been knocked out on the FT by a T landing on the river, when he was holding AJ against AT, all-in pre. And then you somehow won about eight races to stay in the game when Maggie kept putting you in. You were ahead in all of them, but on average we should have won one or two.

Anyway, it was a tremendous final table and the Nobodies played some great tactical poker. It could have gone either way but we came through in the end. They did well to come back cos they were in a lot of trouble early on, but three of them doubled up just before the break to bring them back into it. On the FT, it seemed like we couldn"t put them away. Maggie had a huge stack and played hyper-aggressively, putting them in many times, but losing every race. Everything went against us until, just when it seemed all was lost, things finally turned our way.

A great match. Well played both teams.