Season Seven Seat Reservation

[Des]

It seems to me that while everyone is beginning to understand our wish to keep the events on sale for as long as possible, and our wish to cut down on the administration and to add a light commitment factor; player concern surrounds the need to pay an extra £5.

Has anyone considered that being able to book an event several months in advance would enable you to make a far greater saving in advance hotel and travel costs?

Now I appreciate a fiver is an additional cost for everyone, but that"s the cost of a sandwich or the Sunday newspapers or the booking fee to many shows or sporting events.  We have to rank equal to at least one of those experiences in your lives surely?  I"m beginning to think not and that saddens me.

Perhaps yes for the rank and file APAT member..... but I still see it as a turn-off for the potential new members.

When I"m playing APAT events, I often have locals asking me what it"s about, and I do my best to give the hard sell. I always direct them to apat.com and the forum. If they arrive there looking for the next stop on the tour and are invited to pay an additional fiver on top of their 10% reg fee, I suspect that would be an immediate turn-off for many - they would simply draw comparison to their local tourney where they don"t have to spend extra.   OK they don"t need to reserve a seat and can take their chances on availability, however with the thought in their head already, the turn-off will be out there....

You think they would be accepting of the transport and accomodation fees required to travel and play in a £75 event - as we all are, but not the £5 to book their seat in advance?  Really Steve?  

[AMRN]

It seems to me that while everyone is beginning to understand our wish to keep the events on sale for as long as possible, and our wish to cut down on the administration and to add a light commitment factor; player concern surrounds the need to pay an extra £5.

Has anyone considered that being able to book an event several months in advance would enable you to make a far greater saving in advance hotel and travel costs?

Now I appreciate a fiver is an additional cost for everyone, but that"s the cost of a sandwich or the Sunday newspapers or the booking fee to many shows or sporting events.  We have to rank equal to at least one of those experiences in your lives surely?  I"m beginning to think not and that saddens me.

Perhaps yes for the rank and file APAT member..... but I still see it as a turn-off for the potential new members.

When I"m playing APAT events, I often have locals asking me what it"s about, and I do my best to give the hard sell. I always direct them to apat.com and the forum. If they arrive there looking for the next stop on the tour and are invited to pay an additional fiver on top of their 10% reg fee, I suspect that would be an immediate turn-off for many - they would simply draw comparison to their local tourney where they don"t have to spend extra.   OK they don"t need to reserve a seat and can take their chances on availability, however with the thought in their head already, the turn-off will be out there....

You think they would be accepting of the transport and accomodation fees required to travel and play in a £75 event - as we all are, but not the £5 to book their seat in advance?  Really Steve?  

Is it not more likely that newcomers might get introduced to the tour through their local venue, at which they wouldn"t have travel and accommodation costs though....

[Paulie_D]

Is it not more likely that newcomers might get introduced to the tour through their local venue, at which they wouldn"t have travel and accommodation costs though....

True but they can buy in locally from the seats allocated to the venue...so they wouldn"t need to reserve at all.

Or have I misunderstood?

[TheSnapper]

Is it not more likely that newcomers might get introduced to the tour through their local venue, at which they wouldn"t have travel and accommodation costs though....

Of the potential new player market, would many even have a local event?

[Sugar_Free]

It seems to me that while everyone is beginning to understand our wish to keep the events on sale for as long as possible, and our wish to cut down on the administration and to add a light commitment factor; player concern surrounds the need to pay an extra £5.

Has anyone considered that being able to book an event several months in advance would enable you to make a far greater saving in advance hotel and travel costs?

Now I appreciate a fiver is an additional cost for everyone, but that"s the cost of a sandwich or the Sunday newspapers or the booking fee to many shows or sporting events.  We have to rank equal to at least one of those experiences in your lives surely?  I"m beginning to think not and that saddens me.

Perhaps yes for the rank and file APAT member..... but I still see it as a turn-off for the potential new members.

When I"m playing APAT events, I often have locals asking me what it"s about, and I do my best to give the hard sell. I always direct them to apat.com and the forum. If they arrive there looking for the next stop on the tour and are invited to pay an additional fiver on top of their 10% reg fee, I suspect that would be an immediate turn-off for many - they would simply draw comparison to their local tourney where they don"t have to spend extra.   OK they don"t need to reserve a seat and can take their chances on availability, however with the thought in their head already, the turn-off will be out there....

You think they would be accepting of the transport and accomodation fees required to travel and play in a £75 event - as we all are, but not the £5 to book their seat in advance?  Really Steve?  

If the transport and accommodation costs hadn"t gone through the roof in the last couple of years anyway then I think you may have more people in favour. We understand that APAT is working on a budget but you have to appreciate that we are too.

I recall in the S6 discussion you were worried about APAT losing its USP with the loss of the reg free game, well as someone said earlier on in the thread you are looking at gaining a new one. In little over a year we are going from a game with no reg fee to a game with two.

I can see that fining people who don"t turn up having reserved a seat is never going to work, but how about not letting them use the facility of reserving a seat for a couple of games if they"ve let you down previously.

[Jon MW]

It seems to me that while everyone is beginning to understand our wish to keep the events on sale for as long as possible, and our wish to cut down on the administration and to add a light commitment factor; player concern surrounds the need to pay an extra £5.

Has anyone considered that being able to book an event several months in advance would enable you to make a far greater saving in advance hotel and travel costs?

Now I appreciate a fiver is an additional cost for everyone, but that"s the cost of a sandwich or the Sunday newspapers or the booking fee to many shows or sporting events.  We have to rank equal to at least one of those experiences in your lives surely?  I"m beginning to think not and that saddens me.

Perhaps yes for the rank and file APAT member..... but I still see it as a turn-off for the potential new members.

When I"m playing APAT events, I often have locals asking me what it"s about, and I do my best to give the hard sell. I always direct them to apat.com and the forum. If they arrive there looking for the next stop on the tour and are invited to pay an additional fiver on top of their 10% reg fee, I suspect that would be an immediate turn-off for many - they would simply draw comparison to their local tourney where they don"t have to spend extra.   OK they don"t need to reserve a seat and can take their chances on availability, however with the thought in their head already, the turn-off will be out there....

You think they would be accepting of the transport and accomodation fees required to travel and play in a £75 event - as we all are, but not the £5 to book their seat in advance?  Really Steve?  

Even ignoring the local players, the simple answer is - no.

As has already been said, players will see it as an additional reg fee and it will make it "too expensive".

I"m guessing that the most likely outcome is that APAT regulars who are definitely playing will pay the fee. This will leave spare capacity for locals but reduce overall demand.

What about being able to pay a larger deposit up until 2 weeks beforehand followed by some kind of looser reservation system?

[Zozzy]

Are there any players that are currently against the £5 fee idea, be in favour of a one-off payment at the beginning of the Season of say £10-£12 to guarantee a seat for every leg of that Season?
The "buy now" button can still be in place for those that choose to book on a leg by leg basis.
Don"t forget there is always the option to not reserve a seat at all, and just turn up on the day to play, this will incur no fees at all.
This would make three options, with the regular Apat multi Leg players getting a good deal paying up front (like a football supporter"s Season Ticket)


I suppose a drawback to this system would be that some season ticket holders would have some venues that they have no intention of playing at. They would have to inform Apat in advance of their non attendance.

[SirPercival]

Now I appreciate a fiver is an additional cost for everyone, but that"s the cost of a sandwich or the Sunday newspapers or the booking fee to many shows or sporting events.  We have to rank equal to at least one of those experiences in your lives surely?  I"m beginning to think not and that saddens me.

Des, you aren"t comparing like for like here. The APAT "experience" doesn"t cost £5, like that of a sandwich. A fairer comparision would be asking if I would pay 50p in advance to ensure the sandwich of my choice was available when I got there.

No one here is saying the APAT experience is not good value, we all agree it is.

[Mikeyboy9361]

Okay, there was a poor turn out for the APAT tournament at Wembley, how many of those no shows were none APAT regulars, I would hazard a guess that they were the majority. How many no shows do we get at regular APAT events, not many, and the players that pull out usually let Des, Leigh etc know they can"t make it, am I right?
So why not add the seat reservation cost into the buy in ( I am sure this has already been mentioned) but make it a sum that is chunky enough to raise funds for APAT if there is a no show, and enough to deter the "I can"t be bothered" no show. If some one cant make it and sells their seat on then no foul. I would make it £20 out of the buy in. Just my two pennorth.

[PHIL_TC]

I was paying £6 a pint of Guinness at Wembley. Although I can see both sides of the argument. Personally I think people really need to get a grip on reality of what a fiver gets you in todays world x

Other things you can get for a fiver include :

"I can make your pet photo talk" :
http://www.fivesquids.co.uk/Fun-Bizarre/7065/make-your-pet-photo-talk

"I will get my lizard to write messages of your choice for £5"
http://www.fivesquids.co.uk/Fun-Bizarre/26036/get-my-lizard-to-write-messages-of-your-choice

"I will freak people out with my unusual eyes for £5"
http://www.fivesquids.co.uk/Fun-Bizarre/23323/freak-people-out-with-my-unusual-eyes

An optional fiver to secure a seat OR watching someone with wonky eyes. No brainer x

I would make it £20 out of the buy in. Just my two pennorth.

Agree with Mikey x

[AAroddersAA]

It really doesn"t matter how many of the no shows were APAT regulars (I would assume none) the situation is that there were 30 eople who reserved a seat and did not turn up.

It does seem like we a looking for a perfect solution that does not exist here. People are suggesting putting the £5 as part of the buyin or getting people to pay the full buyin up front. Des has already explained that this would invovle transfering the money to the casino and bring with it all the admin issues and form filling along with the requiement to take the seats off sale about two weeks before the event.

The £5 charge may put new players off as well. People are saying it"s only £5 but if somebody is new to APAT it is an additional cost, although it is not one they HAVE to pay.

Not sure of the best solution, I would pay the £5 and not really worry about it but can see the concerns raised about attracting newer players.

[Paulie_D]

I would make it £20 out of the buy in. Just my two pennorth.

Agree with Mikey x

A lot of people have mentioned this idea but Des has mentioned that any figure that forms a part of the buy-in needs to be sent to the casino two weeks ahead of time and the registration closed...and as such seems to be a non-starter.

I don"t think there is a solution that will please everyone and certainly there are issues with every idea I"ve seen listed so far including the original suggestion.

They will either potentially dis-incentivise new members, add additional cost, not really reduce the admin, not stop the drop-outs, aren"t feasible or some combination of the above.

I don"t know what the answer is but I"m of the opinion that the £5 option is the "least worst" option...if we have to have one.

EDIT: I see Steve has just posted almost exactly the same thing while I was typing.

[AMRN]

Given that APAT has a Paypal account in place for the Staking arrangement, can we not utilise that?

Perhaps when reserving a seat, we send an amount (£5?) to APAT via Paypal, and if we turn up at the tournament, that £5 is shipped back after the event.... if we don"t turn up, it is retained.

Not sure how much admin that would invoke - is it possible to submit Paypal refunds in bulk?

[PHIL_TC]

Given that APAT has a Paypal account in place for the Staking arrangement, can we not utilise that?

Perhaps when reserving a seat, we send an amount (£5?) to APAT via Paypal, and if we turn up at the tournament, that £5 is shipped back after the event.... if we don"t turn up, it is retained.

Not sure how much admin that would invoke - is it possible to submit Paypal refunds in bulk?

I think PayPal would charge 3.4% +20p on those transactions Steve but not 100% sure x

[gosling67]

They will either potentially dis-incentivise new members, add additional cost, not really reduce the admin, not stop the drop-outs, aren"t feasible or some combination of the above.

^ This

Studies have shown that a reg fee might actually make the situation worse as people feel they"ve paid for the right to drop out. http://tuvalu.santafe.edu/~bowles/Forethought.pdf gives an example of nurseries which started charging parents who were late picking up their kids. It resulted in more lateness as parents thought they were then paying for a service, rather than feeling a moral obligation to turn up on time.

Not sure what to suggest as an alternative though ...

Suggestion for pre-payment of tourney fees: As a lot of people use online banking now, could we just do direct transfers to the APAT bank account? There"d be no bank charges for anyone then (I think).