Line Check

[AAroddersAA]

Pokerstar"s 180 man tournament - around 65 players left zero info on the other players, he has been at the table for 2 hands and I have nothing on him in my tracker. Average stack is around 4K at this point. Feels like a standard fold I am ahead rarely, flipping more often than not and dominated quite a bit  anybody disagree? I think I am about 40%-45% against his likely range.

PokerStars Hand #101679960790: Tournament #763459223, $2.28+$0.22 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2013/07/21 10:39:59 WET [2013/07/21 5:39:59 ET]
Table "763459223 4" 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Miss-PokerA (4714 in chips)
Seat 2: Starkicker13 (3377 in chips)
Seat 3: tzou866 (2600 in chips)
Seat 4: eSya00 (10369 in chips)
Seat 5: 33teetwo33 (6427 in chips)
Seat 6: Fireman Kev (2310 in chips)
Seat 7: Missingmiss (1025 in chips)
Seat 8: KenniJensen (3965 in chips)
Seat 9: Odeas1990 (11152 in chips)
Miss-PokerA: posts the ante 25
Starkicker13: posts the ante 25
tzou866: posts the ante 25
eSya00: posts the ante 25
33teetwo33: posts the ante 25
Fireman Kev: posts the ante 25
Missingmiss: posts the ante 25
KenniJensen: posts the ante 25
Odeas1990: posts the ante 25
KenniJensen: posts small blind 125
Odeas1990: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to 33teetwo33 [ ]
Miss-PokerA: folds
Starkicker13: folds
tzou866: folds
eSya00: folds
33teetwo33: raises 250 to 500
Fireman Kev: folds
Missingmiss: folds
KenniJensen: folds
Odeas1990: raises to 11127 and is all-in
33teetwo33: folds

[AMRN]

Easy fold.  There"s hardly anything that you crush, loads that has you crushed, and the rest you"re racing with. You"re somewhere between 18% and 52%. Better spots than this.

[Swinebag]

when someone reships 25 bigs effective (from 44), it usually gives 88 better equity than you would normally expect, so I understand the need to ask here.

however, player is unknown so I"m folding unless I have more info on villain that tells me he does this with 22-77

You are pretty comfortable here so don"t need the race, just move on

[hi_am_chris]

when someone reships 25 bigs effective (from 44), it usually gives 88 better equity than you would normally expect, so I understand the need to ask here.

Great point by Rob here, people just rarely do this with monsters however can still people doing this with 99, TT, JJ as they are scared to see a flop and would rather just ship it in now

[KarmaDope]

As said above. Easy fold.

[TheSnapper]

fold and make a note, 26 bb"s is a spewy reshove and as Rob says, likely to be a capped ranged.

[MintTrav]

I played a GUKPT a while ago and witnessed a similar situation where Toby Lewis raised and someone shoved for a lot of chips. Neither was short; they were both middle-stacked about three-quarters of the way through Day 1 with no impending bust-out danger. I was surprised to see him snap-call with 88; he didn"t even think about it - couldn"t wait to get his chips in and his cards turned over. As it happened, it was a race and he won it. I guess those players are looking for any opportunity to chip up and accept busting frequently as an occupational hazard.

[Erimus]

I can understand the fold and its probably correct but you have 25 bigs and there will be better spots but win this more than likely flip you are in a much better position to win.

Fair enough its more high variance but 20/25 bigs is still no mans land, get 50 bigs puts you in a much better position to dominate the tourney, if he has an over pair there is always a chance to bink the 8 or hit a funky straight.

I tend to take these spots now whereas in the past i folded if he has the over pair gl, if he binks the flip, sigh move on.

nb just got 22 bigs in 10 10 v aq in $55 mtt, i lost ignore the above, fold.

[noble1]

Feels like a standard fold I am ahead rarely, flipping more often than not and dominated quite a bit anybody disagree? I think I am about 40%-45% against his likely range.

all on your stats Rodders assuming you"ve played quite a few, if you are break even ish ROI wise at the moment, then maybe its a spot you can start to flip, especially if you are comfortable with a bigger stack at this stage [65 ish left]

OR - if you are break even or worse from this point and you normally fold these spots then maybe it indicates you need to review your short stack game.. [push and call ranges]

all on what sort of sample number you have to go by....

[deanp27]

probably fold with no other info but i"m not in the "easy fold" camp at all. If I feel at all he is abusing his table chip leader status then I would call it off.

[KarmaDope]

probably fold with no other info but i"m not in the "easy fold" camp at all. If I feel at all he is abusing his table chip leader status then I would call it off.

In an MTT I would agree.

In a 180 turbo it"s a pass. Most regs arent shipping light here against another above average stack - it"s better to just open shove than 3-bet and we are behind his 3-bet jam range. If he"s a random, then you have to ask are they shoving 7-7 here? I would say no.

[deanp27]

It is a MTT no? Don"t really see a great deal of difference between this and any other turbo MTT but admittedly I haven"t played 180s for at least 5 years so no real idea.

I don"t know if he is a reg but OP has no stats on him. I agree he shouldn"t be shipping that light against an above average stack (ie: we may not ship here) but that doesn"t mean he isn"t being abusive of his status as table/tournament chip leader and generally piling it in. Like I said though, would probably fold.

What range do you give the BB here?

[KarmaDope]

It is a MTT no? Don"t really see a great deal of difference between this and any other turbo MTT but admittedly I haven"t played 180s for at least 5 years so no real idea.

I don"t know if he is a reg but OP has no stats on him. I agree he shouldn"t be shipping that light against an above average stack (ie: we may not ship here) but that doesn"t mean he isn"t being abusive of his status as table/tournament chip leader and generally piling it in. Like I said though, would probably fold.

What range do you give the BB here?

Would have to OPR him (and I would do this ingame as well) but as in work I cant atm.

If he was a reg, then TT+ AQs+

If he was a random, then add AJo+ to that list.

[s4ooter]

A reg with a stack should be doing this with a huge range, as its winning uncontested chips a large % of the time.  I expect a lot of pairs, and hands with blockers.

A fish however would have a narrowier range.

Just ran the numbers on ICMizer.

If villian is a reg with a 14% jam range (trust me they do) then its +t933.9 to call (so in the long run youll win that many chips on average)

Even a player with a jamming range of 10% (AA-88, AKo, AKs, AQo, AQs) you profit +t313 so its a call.

Edit: When i used to grind these all the time, if i didnt have you noted as a reg in the games i would be shoving close to 23% of range if i was in the villians seat.

Regs will call off very wide vs regs, but regs also know that weaker players (non-regs) play these like std MMTs and R/F too much.  You find they open 14% of hands but only call a shove with 5-6%.

Id call, and see his hand.  If really wide, then mark his am a reg and narrow your range in the future.  You have to take 2/180s as a series of games, not individual.

I call......

[AAroddersAA]

Morning Dann, don"t entirely agree with this post mate.

I agree that some people (some of the better regs for example) will have a wide range for doing this but not too many are doing this against a stack that can do them real damage.

I don"t really agree that there are a lot of people doing this with a 14% range, there are some but you need some info to suggest they are doing this before you can even consider it, we do not have that in this case, we do not even have him noted as a reg (and I would need more than that I THINK). 14% is something like:-

44+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KJo+,QJo

Against that range we are 50/50 (so that would be an easy call as pot odds are massive). The problem is I don"t think that too many players are really shoving this light. Normally when you call off they will show you a much narrower range of hands.

Even a player with a jamming range of 10% (AA-88, AKo, AKs, AQo, AQs) you profit +t313 so its a call.

This is not a 10% range (it"s about 5%) and it is just not profitable chip wise to call against this range. I have not run the numbers but we are not getting the near 2/1 that we need. Chip wise it is a big -EV call against this range.

10% is probably more like 77+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,AJo+,KJo+ we are 45% against this range this is very marginal chip EV wise and I might call though as it is just about +cEV and I am not yet at the stage where my tournament life is vital. This is pretty marginal and I would like to hear thoughts on it.

If his range is 88+ and AQ+ though we are only about 36% making it a cEV fold.

Regs will call off very wide vs regs, but regs also know that weaker players (non-regs) play these like std MMTs and R/F too much.  You find they open 14% of hands but only call a shove with 5-6%.

Good point, but we just can"t assume this kind of thinking from a player we have two hands on?

OPR/Sharkscope shows he has played about 2500 sitngo"s on Pokerstars and that he is quite regular at the $2.50 180 games currently but does not rate him as that great of a player.