Can TPTK be good here?

[AMRN]

Came across this hand today on a Zoom 25NL NLHE table.

I don"t have much history with either player in the hand, other than:
akaiakuma - 58 hands - 24/19/10
TANKA-Ko - 11 hands - 18/0/0

My raise from the CO is pretty standard with AJo?   My plan was to 4b a re-raise from the button, or to flat in position if either of the blinds re-raised.

The flop looked sweet, and when it checks to me, my c-bet is standard?  My plan was to slow down on the turn for pot control if the c-bet got called.  The button call followed by the c/r left me in a quandary. If the button had folded, and TANKA-Ho check/raised, I can figure him to be strong most of the time..... however, how often is this likely to be a squeeze given the c-bet and the call?




PokerStars Zoom Hand #103692262211:  Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2013/09/05 12:09:02 WET [2013/09/05 7:09:02 ET]
Table "Whirlpool" 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: akaiakuma ($29.70 in chips)
Seat 2: Mr_Plejer7x ($26.39 in chips)
Seat 3: TANKA-Ko ($53.16 in chips)
Seat 4: klain4 ($40 in chips)
Seat 5: B Massiv" ($20.58 in chips)
Seat 6: FanMetallici ($28.54 in chips)
Seat 7: Ulybashka ($45.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Youngblatt ($32.16 in chips)
Seat 9: Harrierz ($23.62 in chips)
Mr_Plejer7x: posts small blind $0.10
TANKA-Ko: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Harrierz [ ]
klain4: folds
B Massiv": folds
FanMetallici: folds
Ulybashka: folds
Youngblatt: folds
Harrierz: raises $0.50 to $0.75
akaiakuma: calls $0.75
Mr_Plejer7x: folds
TANKA-Ko: calls $0.50
*** FLOP *** [ ]
TANKA-Ko: checks
Harrierz: bets $1.75
akaiakuma: calls $1.75
TANKA-Ko: raises $5.25 to $7
Harrierz: ? ? ?

[fandango]

Never played Zoom.. But have played Rush poker.. So in my experience prob not ahead.. That is of course if Zoom is the same as Rush?

[AMRN]

That is of course if Zoom is the same as Rush?

Yes, it"s the Pokerstars equivalent

[Fatcatstu]

This doesnt really feel right, as its zoom i would probably fold and move on. Just dont think this is a spot in which he should be squeezing too often?

[Santino67]

TankHo may have come along for the flop with a 7/8 or 9/10 type hand so could have just about anything from a pair + gut shot, maybe 2 pairs or even the flopped nuts. Add that to the K/J, Q/10, J/10 possibilities, given that you"re C Bet is standard after the preflop he may think these latter type hands are good on that flop. Tough decision to progress with this and probably best to fold, particularly as you have no real read  

[dwh103]

Although it"s only 11 hands, check-raiser has played two of them without making an aggressive action pre. Based on that limited info I"d profile that guy as passive, and the other guy as potentially a thinking player, aggro in position etc. He"s smoothed pre - I"d guess with a decent hand he doesn"t want to effectively turn into a 3b bluff (decent Ax, middling pairs etc).

Even against button only the spot is a bit icky, with what aggression I"d expect from him pre I don"t see a great deal of floats/weak showdown like pair/overs + gutshot. Any idea how he perceives you?

Anywho, a combination of that and a very aggressive action from a potentially passive player means it"s an easy fold for me. You"ve got absolutely no reason to put him on an elaborate check-raise bluff squeeze - though given you mention it I wonder if that"s what he had :p

[CW86]

Although it"s only 11 hands, check-raiser has played two of them without making an aggressive action pre. Based on that limited info I"d profile that guy as passive, and the other guy as potentially a thinking player, aggro in position etc. He"s smoothed pre - I"d guess with a decent hand he doesn"t want to effectively turn into a 3b bluff (decent Ax, middling pairs etc).

Even against button only the spot is a bit icky, with what aggression I"d expect from him pre I don"t see a great deal of floats/weak showdown like pair/overs + gutshot. Any idea how he perceives you?

Anywho, a combination of that and a very aggressive action from a potentially passive player means it"s an easy fold for me. You"ve got absolutely no reason to put him on an elaborate check-raise bluff squeeze - though given you mention it I wonder if that"s what he had :p

Agree, clear fold IMO. I"d only ever be looking to continue in this spot with a good knowledge of villain tendencies. Which is part of the reason I hate zoom in the first place...

[AMRN]

I folded, and I agree that without more info, I have to assume that I"m behind.... I need a very good read to be able to proceed and to commit my stack in this spot, but I don"t have that read.

My question was more about whether I could expand his range to include bluffy squeezes because the other guy had flat called on the button.... does that call open things up for Tanka to be able to apply the squeeze..... and if so, does that make it more or less reasonable for me to proceed with TPTK?

[deanp27]

Fold and move on, especially at fullring and 3 ways on the flop. Really hard to proceed if you call

[pokerpops]

Can"t visualise many turn cards you"re going to like enough to put more in the pot. A or J will look purty but if he"s flopped a set or a straight you"re virtually toast.
Readless just fold but hold Ctrl down and see if the hand plays out for future info.

[AMRN]

To be clear, calling was never a consideration.... it was shove or fold.

[CW86]

I folded, and I agree that without more info, I have to assume that I"m behind.... I need a very good read to be able to proceed and to commit my stack in this spot, but I don"t have that read.

My question was more about whether I could expand his range to include bluffy squeezes because the other guy had flat called on the button.... does that call open things up for Tanka to be able to apply the squeeze..... and if so, does that make it more or less reasonable for me to proceed with TPTK?

I think you have answered your own question there Steve.

No, u cant expand his range realistically to include bluff squeeze because as u stated above, u don"t have a read. Always ere on the side of straightforward lines, especially at 10-25c until proved otherwise. Yes this spot might have potential, but so be it, let him have it...he either has u crushed most of the time, and the times he doesn"t he may still have reasonable equity...

[Sillbags]

I"ve played over 200k hands of 25nl zoom full ring profitably. IMO you are pretty much always behind here, as these games play fairly nitty. When I started playing zoom I found myself stacking off regularly with TPTK, as players almost always had sets or 2 pair hands when raising flops. I actually experimented a little with bluff raising flops vs cbets to rep such hands as I felt it would be easy to exploit players who were folding TPTK to a flop raise. These games are easy to make a profit in by playing fairly standard so no need to take too many marginal spots. For most of the 200k hands I was buying in for 50bbs instead of 100bbs. The reason being, I felt that more players were willing to stack off for 50bb lighter in spots like this. I am a big fan of min raise opening the button with a wider range than normal. Its prob +ev to open button for 100% of your range, but I kept it to about 75%

[Chipaccrual]

Shove and reload if by some minor miracle you fail to win the hand.  Remember, you are Steve Redfern, so even if you find out you are behind, you will hit.

[Santino67]

Shove and reload if by some minor miracle you fail to win the hand.  Remember, you are Steve Redfern, so even if you find out you are behind, you will hit.

Fair point from Leigh TBH, even after all the analysis