Author Topic: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread  (Read 98795 times)

0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.

Matt D

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4485
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #150 on: January 14, 2014, 15:13:25 PM »

And the moment you"ve all been waiting for...

Introducing the defending undisputed APAT team champions of the world (or at least UK):

Two-time APAT UK Team Champion Phil "FirePhil" Laws (captain)
Season 5 APAT UK Team Championship winning captain Rob "Swinebag" Swindells
Three-time APAT UK Team Champion Rod "rodbuck" Buckman
Two-time APAT UK Team Champion Andy "Cayton" Walker
Two-time APAT UK Team Champion Tom "tfeilding" Feilding
One-time APAT UK Team Champion John "JP" Patten
Two-time APAT UK Team Champion Paddy "ThePadster" Kelly
Future APAT UK Team Champion Rob "willrobrobu" Hallworth


lol!! Excellent!! :D
APAT Online is on Grosvenor Poker. Down the software from http://www.apat.com/grosvenor-poker

gosling67

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #151 on: January 14, 2014, 16:01:41 PM »


The 888 forum will be newbies for this event. We play team tourneys on the site and always allow (and expect) soft play and chip dumping between team members 8)

Is this allowed in the APAT Team Championship? I"ve read through previous threads and there seems to be a mixture of opinions, so would be happy to get some advice.


APAT recognise that a small amount of soft play may be inevitable in this style of format, however chip dumping and collusion is not acceptable and will lead to penalty and possible team disqualification.  When in doubt, players should apply everyday poker logic to their decision making.


Thanks Tom - good to know where we stand

Sugar_Free

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 756
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #152 on: January 14, 2014, 16:20:17 PM »


The 888 forum will be newbies for this event. We play team tourneys on the site and always allow (and expect) soft play and chip dumping between team members 8)

Is this allowed in the APAT Team Championship? I"ve read through previous threads and there seems to be a mixture of opinions, so would be happy to get some advice.


APAT recognise that a small amount of soft play may be inevitable in this style of format, however chip dumping and collusion is not acceptable and will lead to penalty and possible team disqualification.  When in doubt, players should apply everyday poker logic to their decision making.


Here we go again. Obviously collusion is not acceptable in any format of the game, however poker logic in a team game says that the longer you and your team mates stay in the tourney, the better. If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it. IMHO it is up to the other players on the table to spot this situation and change their game accordingly to take advantage.
S4 G UK Team - LPM
S6 S UK Online, B Online Team Cup, Home Internationals - England "B", Irish Online
S7 G (& Bracelet) WCOAP Online
S8 G Scottish Online, B WCOAP Stud
S9 S WCOAP Team - England, B UK Team - LPM
S10 S Irish Online, England Captain - WCOAP
S13 B UK Team - APAT Degens

Paulie_D

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6420
  • Travel Guru
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #153 on: January 14, 2014, 16:37:51 PM »

If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it.


That falls under "soft play", at least as far as I understand it.

Obvious chip dumping should be called into question by any/all players at the table.

FLOOR!
“Thor has Mjolnir but I have a banhammer. I think I win”

Delboy

  • Silver Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
  • Its not about the Poker
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #154 on: January 14, 2014, 18:16:58 PM »
Tom, If you are staying at the Quality, Can you leave the blonde teams t shirts at the reception for me to pick up Friday on behalf of Asa please?. Saves you taking them to the casino and me carrying them back again.

Thanks in advance :)

LombBomb

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Silver Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #155 on: January 14, 2014, 18:31:12 PM »


If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it.


That falls under "soft play", at least as far as I understand it.

Obvious chip dumping should be called into question by any/all players at the table.

FLOOR!




I remember this was a hot topic of debate during the Online League.  How can you quantify what is chip dumping in this format, where it"s in your best interests to see teams mates on your table surviving as long as possible, thereby increasing your chances of your team winning?

Captain of Scotland WCOAP Team Winners - London 2016
Welsh Open PLO Champion - Bristol 2014
Scotland Bronze Medallist APAT ECOAP - Prague 2013
Scotland Home International Champions - Stoke 2012
Twitter: www.twitter.com/TomClark
HM: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=261278

Paulie_D

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6420
  • Travel Guru
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #156 on: January 14, 2014, 18:37:46 PM »



If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it.


That falls under "soft play", at least as far as I understand it.

Obvious chip dumping should be called into question by any/all players at the table.

FLOOR!




I remember this was a hot topic of debate during the Online League.  How can you quantify what is chip dumping in this format, where it"s in your best interests to see teams mates on your table surviving as long as possible, thereby increasing your chances of your team winning?




There"s a difference in folding Aces to a team-mates all-in to raise-folding to a short-stacked team-mates raise to pass chips.

In case of doubt...call the floor.
“Thor has Mjolnir but I have a banhammer. I think I win”

LombBomb

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Silver Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #157 on: January 14, 2014, 18:48:24 PM »




If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it.


That falls under "soft play", at least as far as I understand it.

Obvious chip dumping should be called into question by any/all players at the table.

FLOOR!




I remember this was a hot topic of debate during the Online League.  How can you quantify what is chip dumping in this format, where it"s in your best interests to see teams mates on your table surviving as long as possible, thereby increasing your chances of your team winning?




There"s a difference in folding Aces to a team-mates all-in to raise-folding to a short-stacked team-mates raise to pass chips.

In case of doubt...call the floor.


All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.
Captain of Scotland WCOAP Team Winners - London 2016
Welsh Open PLO Champion - Bristol 2014
Scotland Bronze Medallist APAT ECOAP - Prague 2013
Scotland Home International Champions - Stoke 2012
Twitter: www.twitter.com/TomClark
HM: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=261278

Paulie_D

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6420
  • Travel Guru
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #158 on: January 14, 2014, 20:05:59 PM »


All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.


I would hope we"re all more grownup than that.
“Thor has Mjolnir but I have a banhammer. I think I win”

Sugar_Free

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 756
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #159 on: January 14, 2014, 21:56:03 PM »




If this means passing them some chips within the rules of the game then so be it.


That falls under "soft play", at least as far as I understand it.

Obvious chip dumping should be called into question by any/all players at the table.

FLOOR!




I remember this was a hot topic of debate during the Online League.  How can you quantify what is chip dumping in this format, where it"s in your best interests to see teams mates on your table surviving as long as possible, thereby increasing your chances of your team winning?




There"s a difference in folding Aces to a team-mates all-in to raise-folding to a short-stacked team-mates raise to pass chips.

In case of doubt...call the floor.


The difference being that the first one nobody would ever know you had done it to be able to call the floor, the second one could be countered by anyone else at the table knowing you were probably raising light and being able to take advantage.
S4 G UK Team - LPM
S6 S UK Online, B Online Team Cup, Home Internationals - England "B", Irish Online
S7 G (& Bracelet) WCOAP Online
S8 G Scottish Online, B WCOAP Stud
S9 S WCOAP Team - England, B UK Team - LPM
S10 S Irish Online, England Captain - WCOAP
S13 B UK Team - APAT Degens

LombBomb

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Silver Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #160 on: January 14, 2014, 22:18:04 PM »



All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.


I would hope we"re all more grownup than that.


The point I"m making is that in a team event format, soft play and chip dumping is inevitable.  Ultimately the team situation is more important than any individual glory.
Captain of Scotland WCOAP Team Winners - London 2016
Welsh Open PLO Champion - Bristol 2014
Scotland Bronze Medallist APAT ECOAP - Prague 2013
Scotland Home International Champions - Stoke 2012
Twitter: www.twitter.com/TomClark
HM: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=261278

Laxie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2623
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #161 on: January 15, 2014, 00:28:07 AM »




All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.


I would hope we"re all more grownup than that.


The point I"m making is that in a team event format, soft play and chip dumping is inevitable.  Ultimately the team situation is more important than any individual glory.


Just because it"s inevitable, doesn"t make it right.  It"s a honour thing and I"d like to think we"ll all play with honour.

IrishTom

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3064
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #162 on: January 15, 2014, 10:31:41 AM »

Tom, If you are staying at the Quality, Can you leave the blonde teams t shirts at the reception for me to pick up Friday on behalf of Asa please?. Saves you taking them to the casino and me carrying them back again.

Thanks in advance :)



Sure no problem.
Facebook: Tom Brady (Plymouth)
Twitter: TomBradyLPPL

AMRN

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5261
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #163 on: January 15, 2014, 10:47:37 AM »





All well and good but once one team calls the floor you then run the risk of tit-for-tat situations...the floor will have an extremely busy night.


I would hope we"re all more grownup than that.


The point I"m making is that in a team event format, soft play and chip dumping is inevitable.  Ultimately the team situation is more important than any individual glory.


Just because it"s inevitable, doesn"t make it right.  It"s a honour thing and I"d like to think we"ll all play with honour.


So imagine a situation where the title is close to being decided, and a team has two players left in, and are on the verge of victory. One is huge chip leader and bullying the table, but the other is short-stacked and on the same table. The big stack opens for 2x as he has done for the past ten hands in a row.... his short stacked team mate then shoves for 4x and it folds back round to the original raiser. Clearly, in poker terms he has to call - folding is not an option.......  If he calls, he MIGHT lose the hand and double his team-mate up, but he might also win/suckout and bust his team-mate, and hand the title to another team.  Therefore, in the team context, folding is absolutely correct - but in poker terms, this would be soft play.

I hate this debate - it"s been going on forever. If we are to continue with "TEAM POKER", surely we just have to bite the bullet and recognise that usual poker rules don"t apply when it comes to chip dumping, soft play, etc.  It"s either an Individual tournament or it"s a Team tournament - the rules don"t necessarily fit both formats.

For me, soft play and chip passing should be an integral part of Team Poker, and it"s up to the other teams to see it happening and to take advantage. Like all poker, it"s about adjusting to varying dynamics...... Team Poker could become a really exciting concept if we were to embrace it fully, rather than trying to apply rules that don"t fit the concept.

Fatcatstu

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: APAT UK Team Championship 2014 - Discussion Thread
« Reply #164 on: January 15, 2014, 10:51:31 AM »
See, I think soft play is ok, I won"t be playing massive hands against action from a team mate, but I will also not be chip dumping as I think that is wrong.

There should be some space left in this tourny for the team whose players play best to win, not just the ones who can carry dead weight for longest.
England C Captain 2012
World Team Champions England 2013