WCOAP TEAM EVENT

[AAroddersAA]

Also slightly off topic but will Warren and Chris actually want to play this? They both merit consideration I agree BUT they will have to skip 2/3 side events which might cost them the player of the year?

I don"t think much can be done about this clash but it does cause some headaches. I still think they way it is done currently is probably best, running it at a different time to all other events can"t be realistic I would not think?

[s4ooter]

Owned by Chris.

I"m going into hiding.

WP sir.

However did think you wanted the mascot job??

Rodders - Any1 in contention for POTY would be silly to play for their country at WCOAP, unless of course they aren"t bothered by the added value?!

[Fatcatstu]

Let"s be fair stu, our B team had none of that.

Randomly I think me and Paulie spoke more in Cov than we did at DTD that weekend, Altho that"s prob cuz he didn"t like me much

Disagree...I think we had loads.

True we didn"t all know each other but we meshed really well IMO...and that"s the point.


As for speaking, we had more time in Coventry....at DTD I was busy going deep.

Agree with Paulie here, i thought it went well.

IMO people who arent active in the community wont get a chance as the people who get picked to captain APAT are (and always should be) regular players with a pedigree in APAT events. If someone they know, and have a knowledge of their games applies then they stand more of a chance of getting picked than someone who people barely know, who dont take the time to put in a high quality application (as Steve about mine for the worlds, it spanned 3 messages!!) and who dont seem interested in the APAT community to a high degree, if that makes sense??

I know that probably sounds elitist and all that, but its a way of getting to know people better and improving the APAT community and having people be more involved day to day.

[s4ooter]

Haha my application was about 3 lines

[Chipaccrual]

I"ve seen one or two of these in my time, and even played in the first one in Brighton (That"s before there were good players to select from for a team).

The team events are a unique few days, which until you play in one, it is quite difficult to explain.  The reality of the situation is that whoever is selected as captain for whichever country puts together the team that they think can win it.

The winning team will need to play consistently well across the two days, and also get a decent chunk of luck.  They won"t have been the only team to have played consistently well on the day, and I would argue that those players selected could easily have been replaced by plenty of other worthy APATers who would probably have turned up and played consistently well also.

It"s easy to talk about team spirit when as a team, you are up there with something to play for.  If you are out of the running, I don"t blame players for getting distracted.  It"s not been your year, and you just want to get on with playing some other poker.

I don"t claim to see enough of any APATers to be able to say one rates above another when it comes to Sit "n" Go"s, or Pot Limit Omaha, or the ability to grind a stack home.  So it comes down to a game of opinions on team selection based on what knowledge you have.  And it"s tough.

Things I do feel would be good for the events going forward are :-

• No country should EVER have more than one team in one of these events


• Where possible, captains should change each year


• Captains should look to try and introduce at least one "new cap" at each event


• Perhaps allocate the prizepool to each phase, so keeping interest up for all


• There should be a players welcome party with a bar  

[TheSnapper]

Discussing team selection criteria is totally futile imho, firstly, it is largely only relevant to England Captains who have both the luxury of choice and the headache of having to disappoint many excellent players.

Secondly, given the breath of choice, the limited opportunity to get to know and correctly evaluate a players attributes, it"s inevitable that Captains will end up selecting from amongst the players they know best.

I"ve always felt that it is impossible for England Captains to have enough insight into such a large number of available players who are spread far and wide.

[Paulie_D]

• There should be a players welcome party with a bar  

My name is Paulie...and I approve this message.

[KarmaDope]

I"d like to see the format changed.

I"d like to see 4/5 per team, and multiple disciplines.
PLO, NLH, Stud, Razz, HU, HORSE, 6 max
Captains then have to pick the best poker players from their countries and not friends/mates etc
Captains rank their players on each discipline and are matched vs other countries players of the same ranking.
Ie Carl is England"s #1 PLO player. His sng features all the #1 ranks in.
This would also allow captains to actually play tactically, instead of just giving a player a number and it"s pot luck.

I"d also like to see the seat draw being more random. At the euros I had England A on my left in all but 1 sng. That was a ball ache and just bad for game play for all.

Completely agree with all of this. Maybe not HORSE though, 6 SNG"s - NLH, LHE, PLO, PLO8, Stud & Stud 8. No MTT and no HU for the medals.

If we are going to have HU for the medals then we really need 5 (or any odd number) as means there can"t be a draw!

Was gonna make a massive long post on selection but too tired now...so to sum it up briefly:

• Champions should always be able to defend
  
• I like the idea of the winning country being allowed to submit 2 teams if they wish to do so
  
• Countries should rotate Captains every year if possible
  
• All countries should endeavour to have one "uncapped" player in their team
  

Oh, and please, if possible, give the World Team Championships their own days which don"t clash with side events!

[CW86]

Also slightly off topic but will Warren and Chris actually want to play this? They both merit consideration I agree BUT they will have to skip 2/3 side events which might cost them the player of the year?

I don"t think much can be done about this clash but it does cause some headaches. I still think they way it is done currently is probably best, running it at a different time to all other events can"t be realistic I would not think?

Fraid this is indeed the case, whilst i would love to play if selected for a team, the simple fact that i would have to miss side events counts me out.

Hence my post suggestion on page 1 re allowing a team to submit and contribute to a separate prize pool (Im not for a moment suggesting that the proper team event should be cancelled, but it would allow other players to enjoy the team format who cant play or would not be selected)

[MintTrav]

Can i also point out that picking a team is not just about picking the best players... its about picking a TEAM.

When i have picked teams i have gone for a blend of people i know would get on and support each other in the event, which helps each individual.

When we won the Worlds, it was because we stuck together as a team. We all railed each player when we were out. We didnt just clear off and talk to our mates. I know from talking to the guys that this made a massive difference to each and every one of us at some point during the tournament. Whether it was me in my Omaha SNG on day 2, or Carl in the last NLHE SNG or Tony in his headsup match. IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

Just throwing a group of randoms together is not a - Going to make a winning team or b - make the experience enjoyable for all concerned.

I don"t like this post at all. Smacks of cliquism and picking your mates. There is no reason why a team who don"t know each other (randoms, if you like) could not perform as a team just as well as people who do.

[MintTrav]

I would just select the Eng, Scot, Ire & Welsh teams based totally on rankings. That way, players who have performed well but are not so well known would get their place rather than people who are known or have done it before or are picked on the nebulous basis that they are considered likely to gel with the others as a team. And people who get picked a lot for the three non-English teams wouldn"t have a right to a place, but would have to perform and justify it every time.

This would mean that the previous winning individuals would not so-called "defend". There may an example somewhere, but I can"t think of another competitive activity where the previous team is selected en-masse, because they won the last time, ahead of the currently better-performing players.

[MintTrav]

I am surprised at just how many people have posted that the team event should not overlap with the WCOAP sides. I knew there was some dislike for this, but I didn"t realize it was so widespread. No surprise that I totally agree.

[Hammerite]

I would just select the Eng, Scot, Ire & Welsh teams based totally on rankings. That way, players who have performed well but are not so well known would get their place rather than people who are known or have done it before or are picked on the nebulous basis that they are considered likely to gel with the others as a team. And people who get picked a lot for the three non-English teams wouldn"t have a right to a place, but would have to perform and justify it every time.

I would like to agree with John"s post, I have always advocated that team selection should be based on rankings to avoid any of the criticisms of the current system, such as the one"s mentioned in some posts on this thread. If this system was set in stone we could forego the annual debate of the best way to select each team and everyone would have an equal chance of making their national team and they would be aware of the qualifying cut off dates at the start of the season.

For example you could take the points from all ranking events on a calendar year so the top 4/5 players at the 31st December would be in line to play in the next years team events. There are numerous permutations as to how the rankings cut off could be applied, but that"s for another debate, again once it is set in stone everyone starts on a level playing field and would know what they need to achieve to make the team.

[KarmaDope]

I would just select the Eng, Scot, Ire & Welsh teams based totally on rankings. That way, players who have performed well but are not so well known would get their place rather than people who are known or have done it before or are picked on the nebulous basis that they are considered likely to gel with the others as a team. And people who get picked a lot for the three non-English teams wouldn"t have a right to a place, but would have to perform and justify it every time.

I would like to agree with John"s post, I have always advocated that team selection should be based on rankings to avoid any of the criticisms of the current system, such as the one"s mentioned in some posts on this thread. If this system was set in stone we could forego the annual debate of the best way to select each team and everyone would have an equal chance of making their national team and they would be aware of the qualifying cut off dates at the start of the season.

For example you could take the points from all ranking events on a calendar year so the top 4/5 players at the 31st December would be in line to play in the next years team events. There are numerous permutations as to how the rankings cut off could be applied, but that"s for another debate, again once it is set in stone everyone starts on a level playing field and would know what they need to achieve to make the team.

The only issue I have with this is that as described above, the current No.1 English player in the rankings has publicly declared that he does not want to play the Team Event as he wants to win the rankings - so he needs to play the side events.

Also, thinking about it, as there are so many more English players, they are disadvantaged. As an example, Rodders could come 7th in one event and score enough points to qualify for Wales. I could do the same and would be nowhere near qualifying for England.

There will never be a perfect way to select the teams. I favour a mixture - 1 captain chosen by Des" team. He then has 2 personal choices and offers the other 2 slots to the first 2 in the rankings for his country. If any of those two turn him down, he has to offer to the next two in the rankings. If they also turn him down - captain"s choice.

[s4ooter]

There is lots of mentions from England players about how many medals they have won representing England prior.

If youve won 3 medals, as an England player, surely thats time to move aside.

We are in Season 7 and have lots of good players, surely its time to let other players have a stab in the dark.

I would be interested to see numbers on how many different players have represented England in Homes, Euros and Worlds and how many times each of them have played.  Also how many medals they have won doing so.