WCOAP TEAM EVENT

[MintTrav]

I would just select the Eng, Scot, Ire & Welsh teams based totally on rankings. That way, players who have performed well but are not so well known would get their place rather than people who are known or have done it before or are picked on the nebulous basis that they are considered likely to gel with the others as a team. And people who get picked a lot for the three non-English teams wouldn"t have a right to a place, but would have to perform and justify it every time.

I would like to agree with John"s post, I have always advocated that team selection should be based on rankings to avoid any of the criticisms of the current system, such as the one"s mentioned in some posts on this thread. If this system was set in stone we could forego the annual debate of the best way to select each team and everyone would have an equal chance of making their national team and they would be aware of the qualifying cut off dates at the start of the season.

For example you could take the points from all ranking events on a calendar year so the top 4/5 players at the 31st December would be in line to play in the next years team events. There are numerous permutations as to how the rankings cut off could be applied, but that"s for another debate, again once it is set in stone everyone starts on a level playing field and would know what they need to achieve to make the team.

The only issue I have with this is that as described above, the current No.1 English player in the rankings has publicly declared that he does not want to play the Team Event as he wants to win the rankings - so he needs to play the side events.

Also, thinking about it, as there are so many more English players, they are disadvantaged. As an example, Rodders could come 7th in one event and score enough points to qualify for Wales. I could do the same and would be nowhere near qualifying for England.

There will never be a perfect way to select the teams. I favour a mixture - 1 captain chosen by Des" team. He then has 2 personal choices and offers the other 2 slots to the first 2 in the rankings for his country. If any of those two turn him down, he has to offer to the next two in the rankings. If they also turn him down - captain"s choice.

In paragraph 3, you provide the answer to your objection in paragraph 1. Just offer it down the list if someone doesn"t want to play.

Can"t do anything about your para 2 objection. There are more English players. The Welsh team is only open to people from Wales.

[ian.ski309]

There may an example somewhere, but I can"t think of another competitive activity where the previous team is selected en-masse, because they won the last time, ahead of the currently better-performing players.

The idea of the same individuals defending their APAT team title is one I happen to agree with... but I can also understand why denying a huge number of English players the opportunity to participate in a WCOAP for two whole years is going to cause irritation.

[Mikeyboy9361]

I agree with JMs selection policy, that would reward the players who are playing well and support APAT. If the most highly placed players do not wish to play, they can just move aside and pick the next player in the table.
Very simple IMO, and gets away from the same old faces argument, unless those same old faces get in on merit

[AMRN]

I like the concept of qualification through rankings, if only to remove all the frustrations about criticism of team selections, and to provide a clean and transparent process. It gives those people who believe they will never get picked a chance to earn their place.

However, as said above, this only works if the team event does not clash with the sides.  As also said above, as a system, it would be totally unfair to the England player pool, many of whom might significantly out-perform Welsh, Irish, or Scottish players over the course of the season, but due to the sheer volume, they wouldn"t get a place.

Something not mentioned above is the "exclusivity" within the rankings system in terms of opportunity. Some of the ranking events are not open to all. OK, hypothetically they are open, however some people cannot fund trips to Prague, Vegas (or even Ireland) to play those ranking events, hence those with deepest pockets would have an advantage at the rankings and therefore a headstart toward country selection.

Lastly, by setting the rankings as a selection policy, we would create an un-level playing field within the competition, ie not all teams have 4/5 players in the rankings, and therefore have free selection opportunity. Not sure if this makes a difference ultimately when the competition is played, however it is disparity within the process, and potentially an advantage to one or the other.

[s4ooter]

If you are in the Top 5 or so in the rankings, youd be mental to play in the Team Event (unless, of course, you dont want to win player of the year)

Lots of juicy side events, with depleated fields (due to the Team Event Running)

I think that a seperate w/e for the World Team Event should be organised that is just centered around the Teams so that all the players can also play all sides at the Worlds.  Maybe a logistical nightmare, but would be nice to see.

I was also part of the convo at DTD with Des, Mark, Leigh, Chris and Dave.

Running a "Team" element, open to all, at the Worlds is a great idea.
Teams are submitted, with a minimum of 5, max of 10.
You name your selected "4" for each side event, and these are the only players that can score points.
People can make there own teams, from friends and encourage more newbies to come.
Teams pay a flat entry fee

Sounds awesome

[AMRN]

There may an example somewhere, but I can"t think of another competitive activity where the previous team is selected en-masse, because they won the last time, ahead of the currently better-performing players.

The idea of the same individuals defending their APAT team title is one I happen to agree with... but I can also understand why denying a huge number of English players the opportunity to participate in a WCOAP for two whole years is going to cause irritation.

It"s only really likely to be an issue if an England team wins. Most other countries that have won team events in the past have been able to defend with the same players, simply because there are no other players available (France, Poland, etc come to mind).   The fact that England won it this year for the first time is probably why this topic is only being discussed now for the first time.

[ian.ski309]

There may an example somewhere, but I can"t think of another competitive activity where the previous team is selected en-masse, because they won the last time, ahead of the currently better-performing players.

The idea of the same individuals defending their APAT team title is one I happen to agree with... but I can also understand why denying a huge number of English players the opportunity to participate in a WCOAP for two whole years is going to cause irritation.

It"s only really likely to be an issue if an England team wins. Most other countries that have won team events in the past have been able to defend with the same players, simply because there are no other players available (France, Poland, etc come to mind).   The fact that England won it this year for the first time is probably why this topic is only being discussed now for the first time.

No argument from me, but it doesn"t make the issue any less relevant.

[AAroddersAA]

There may an example somewhere, but I can"t think of another competitive activity where the previous team is selected en-masse, because they won the last time, ahead of the currently better-performing players.

The idea of the same individuals defending their APAT team title is one I happen to agree with... but I can also understand why denying a huge number of English players the opportunity to participate in a WCOAP for two whole years is going to cause irritation.

It"s only really likely to be an issue if an England team wins. Most other countries that have won team events in the past have been able to defend with the same players, simply because there are no other players available (France, Poland, etc come to mind).   The fact that England won it this year for the first time is probably why this topic is only being discussed now for the first time.

It happened with Wales in 2010 and 2011.

At that time you could easily have picked a second Welsh team who would have been competitive, people not selected that year who were available at the time included myself (number 1 ranked live player), Ben Young (World Champion and double gold medalist), Warren Jones (Champion of Champions and number one online player), Darren Shallis (3 final tables that season and 6 overall and gold medalist) and Gary Phillips (numerous deep runs in WCOAP), there were a number of others as well, so the situation has most definitely occurred before.

All of the community from Wales were 100% behind the re-selection of that team though (as far as I know) as, it just seemed right the champions should get to defend. This situation seems to be almost the same.

[AMRN]

All of the community from Wales were 100% behind the re-selection of that team though (as far as I know) as, it just seemed right the champions should get to defend. This situation seems to be almost the same.

Big difference - that was Wales. We"re talking about England now, and we English have it in our very nature to not celebrate success, or to find positivity where there is an opportunity to find negativity instead.

It"s the taking part that counts you know, old chap!

[KarmaDope]

There is lots of mentions from England players about how many medals they have won representing England prior.

If youve won 3 medals, as an England player, surely thats time to move aside.

We are in Season 7 and have lots of good players, surely its time to let other players have a stab in the dark.

I would be interested to see numbers on how many different players have represented England in Homes, Euros and Worlds and how many times each of them have played.  Also how many medals they have won doing so.

I have had a basic look at this. Ignored the home internationals as they provided multiple teams for the home nations and would have skewed the data.

As far as I can tell, we have had 4 European Team Championships and 3 World Team Championships, but without a true archive I can only go by Live Update threads!

The results were as follows (caps, not medals) with all players not in bold receiving their only cap.

Asa McGrath
Steve Redfern - 4
Carl Pilgrim - 2
Tony Trippier - 3
Stuart Ward - 2
Rob Swindells
James Barber
George Bedi
Brian Yates - 2
Paul Haycock - 2
Charles Mason
John Miller
Neil Blatchley
Simon Auckland
Linda Iwaniak
Bob Malin
Steve Stringer
Richard Baker - 2
Alan Armitage
Dan Patterson

[s4ooter]

So when u won the HN individuals, your didn"t get invited to Euros/Worlds??

I"d have no probs with England retaining x amount of the team, whilst the lowest 2 scorers get dropped and have to reapply with the rest.

Yea it"s a team game, but cut the chase.... Points make prizes, and the lowest scorers have directly contributed less than the others.

Get rid off the dead wood, and bring in new players.

[AMRN]

For the record, the team I selected for 2013 WCOAP included the top ranked players in the live rankings (Carl), the online rankings (Asa), and the online league (Tony).

[KarmaDope]

For the record, the team I selected for 2013 WCOAP included the top ranked players in the live rankings (Carl), the online rankings (Asa), and the online league (Tony).

True. The basic data is exactly that, basic. And I might have missed some because all I could find was World Team Championships from Season 4 to 6 and European Team Championships from Seasons 2, 3, 6 and 7.

[Chipaccrual]

Surely the most important thing here is asking the question "Will England bring back the white team jackets, and if it means selecting Brian Yates again, then this SHOULD happen"

Have you still got yours Steve ?

I"ve never been able to find a photo of the pair of you in them, but they were a superb effort on Brian"s part, and what the event should be about.  The pride and passion of playing for your country.

[AMRN]

If the WCOAP 2014 is reduced to 4 players per team, then this whole conversation is moot for this year.

If it stays with the 5 player team format, then the conversation still applies.  To be clear on this though, as always I"m happy to go with the consensus. My own opinion is that the competition should be made up of one team per country, plus the defending champion team, IF that team wishes to play again as a whole and unchanged team, and IF the country in question is able to field two teams.  OK it may be that only England, and possibly Scotland, would see the upside of this due to player pool sizes, however that doesn"t mean that the idea is necessarily a bad one.