WCOAP 2014 Team Championship Discussion Thread

[bear21]

I would have liked to have seen the three Sit n Go phases to have combined all three variants.

So each phase would be scheduled as

4 x 8 handed NLHE (2 players from each team)
2 x 8 handed PLO (1 player from each team)
2 x 8 handed PLO H/L (1 player from each team)

This would allow the captain the opportunity to make strategic decisions not only on team selection (do you pick a specialist who then also has to play a NLHE HU and MTT or go for more multi-skilled players), but also on the day of each phase.

This would also remove the fact that players will be put off by the PLO H/L element.  (I hear what you are saying Brendan, but I would add that there are plenty of really good APAT players who have never played PLO H/L, or perhaps even PLO for that matter).  I would certainly not want to represent my country if, for example, Limit Stud was included as a "must play".  I would be too worried about letting the others down as I don"t play that variant, let alone to a standard for this competition.

#justsayin  

See what you are saying Leigh but to me a PLO hi/lo game is a great inclusion

About time APAT brought the game in , OK maybe for the team event a bit of a shock but I would like to see this included a lot more on APAT events and I"m sure other APAT"ers would agree also with other games like stud etc

well done !!

Gary, you might have missed my point. I agree with you, it"s a great inclusion, but using the structure I have suggested means no one is put off from trying to get to play for their country.

Unless of course the view is that there"s only a small bunch of players in contention for their country and it"s assumed that they all know their stuff.

I wonder how many of the top players in the rankings over the years would say that they were competent at PLO8 ?

Let"s include it, but not at a cost of putting players off.

Leigh , having read it again I see where you are coming from and totally agree !!

Still think it"s a grrrreat game though  

[MintTrav]

And regarding the HU: do other people also think that 4 points is a bit too much maybe? Because the score is either 4-0 or 0-4.. which means there"s a 4-point difference between winning and losing!

FYP

[DodgyEnd (Tom APAT.be)]

And regarding the HU: do other people also think that 4 points is a bit too much maybe? Because the score is either 4-0 or 0-4.. which means there"s a 4-point difference between winning and losing!

FYP

I probably didn"t explain well enough... but let"s say that I play HU against a team that is equal in points at that time. That means that winning means my team will be 4 points up, but losing means that my team is 4 points down.
And that is a difference of 8 points!!

So in essence, winning or losing an HU is an 8-point difference!

[IrishTom]

[IrishTom]

Or this:

17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.1.1 NLHE STT (2 members)
17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.2.1 PLO STT (1 member)
17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.3.1 PLO 08 STT (1 member)
17 Apr "on demand" WCOAP #5.4 HU matches (4 members)

18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.1.2 NLHE STT (2 members)
18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.2.2 PLO STT (1 member)
18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.3.3 PLO 08 STT (1 member)
18 Apr 19:00 WCOAP #5.5 NLHE MTT (4 members)

[Chipaccrual]

Or this:

17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.1.1 NLHE STT (2 members)
17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.2.1 PLO STT (1 member)
17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.3.1 PLO 08 STT (1 member)
17 Apr "on demand" WCOAP #5.4 HU matches (4 members)

18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.1.2 NLHE STT (2 members)
18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.2.2 PLO STT (1 member)
18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.3.3 PLO 08 STT (1 member)
18 Apr 19:00 WCOAP #5.5 NLHE MTT (4 members)

I think that works well

[TheSnapper]

Or this:

17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.1.1 NLHE STT (2 members)
17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.2.1 PLO STT (1 member)
17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.3.1 PLO 08 STT (1 member)
17 Apr "on demand" WCOAP #5.4 HU matches (4 members)

18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.1.2 NLHE STT (2 members)
18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.2.2 PLO STT (1 member)
18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.3.3 PLO 08 STT (1 member)
18 Apr 19:00 WCOAP #5.5 NLHE MTT (4 members)

I think that works well

Not sure about the long term viability of this format, its basically a 50% NLH 50% omaha event. When you consider that representing in these events is the pinnacle for most members in our predominantly NLH association.

I do realise that I somewhat contradict my earlier post on the subject but feel this changed format is somewhat likely to raise the real and perceived competency level given it"s likely impact on the Team selection process.

Added to the already limited player availability faced by the smaller represented Nations, this could be a short term success with very detrimental long term implications. Not sure how many players we have who would be happy to fill the almost exclusive role of Team PLO player?

I love the idea from personal point of view, just trying to tease out how it might develop long term.

[IrishTom]

Or this:

17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.1.1 NLHE STT (2 members)
17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.2.1 PLO STT (1 member)
17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.3.1 PLO 08 STT (1 member)
17 Apr "on demand" WCOAP #5.4 HU matches (4 members)

18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.1.2 NLHE STT (2 members)
18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.2.2 PLO STT (1 member)
18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.3.3 PLO 08 STT (1 member)
18 Apr 19:00 WCOAP #5.5 NLHE MTT (4 members)

I think that works well

Not sure about the long term viability of this format, its basically a 50% NLH 50% omaha event. When you consider that representing in these events is the pinnacle for most members in our predominantly NLH association.

I do realise that I somewhat contradict my earlier post on the subject but feel this changed format is somewhat likely to raise the real and perceived competency level given it"s likely impact on the Team selection process.

Added to the already limited player availability faced by the smaller represented Nations, this could be a short term success with very detrimental long term implications. Not sure how many players we have who would be happy to fill the almost exclusive role of Team PLO player?

I love the idea from personal point of view, just trying to tease out how it might develop long term.

Yes potentially asking for each team to supply 2 PLO players is asking too much - but not as much as we are currently asking (all 4 members play each STT) - another idea would be to have the PLO events on 2 separate days (thereby only "needing" 1 PLO player):

17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.1 NLHE STT (3 members)  
17 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.2 PLO 08 STT (1 member)  
17 Apr "on demand" WCOAP #5.3 HU Matches (4 members)

18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.4 NLHE STT (3 members)
18 Apr 12:00 WCOAP #5.5 PLO STT (1 member)
18 Apr 19:00 WCOAP #5.6 NLHE MTT (4 member)

[Paulie_D]

our predominantly NLH association.

We"re a predominantly POKER association...it"s just that most members haven"t bothered (or don"t care) to learn variants other than NLHE.

IMO this is something APAT should be addressing (more)....there"s an incredible range of poker variants out there that are a darn sight more fun than grinding at NLHE.

I know that the few I have encouraged to play PLO/PLO8, in general, much prefer it to HE.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks to any progress on this has, of course, been the limited talent pool available in the UK casino dealer pool that are actually aware of these variants, let alone know how to deal them or the rules that apply....and we hate to self-deal in APAT...don"t we?

I"ve actually had to teach dealers how 7-card stud is played....Stud Hi/Lo would have been a nightmare.

Asking MORE of teams representing their countries is something to be encouraged.

[TheSnapper]

but not as much as we are currently asking (all 4 members play each STT)

Am I alone in thinking there is a big difference between the current.....

Team of four with combined NLH and Omaha skills?

and the proposed....

Team of four with 2 x NLH specialists and 2 x Omaha specialists?

Will this will impact Team selection strategy?
Will some Teams be disadvantaged?

[IrishTom]

but not as much as we are currently asking (all 4 members play each STT)

Am I alone in thinking there is a big difference between the current.....

Team of four with combined NLH and Omaha skills?

and the proposed....

Team of four with 2 x NLH specialists and 2 x Omaha specialists?

Will this will impact Team selection strategy?
Will some Teams be disadvantaged?

No I don"t think you"re alone Brendan - but I do agree with Paulie, to an extent - why should the WCOAP Team Championship (or ECOAP etc) be restricted to NLHE - but maybe one (or two!) steps at a time

[TheSnapper]

our predominantly NLH association.

We"re a predominantly POKER association...it"s just that most members haven"t bothered (or don"t care) to learn variants other than NLHE.

IMO this is something APAT should be addressing (more)....there"s an incredible range of poker variants out there that are a darn sight more fun than grinding at NLHE.

I know that he few I have encouraged to play PLO/PLO8, in general, much prefer it to HE.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks to any progress on this has, of course, been the limited talent pool available in the UK casino dealer pool that are actually aware of these variants, let alone know how to deal them or the rules that apply....and we hate to self-deal in APAT...don"t we?

I"ve actually had to teach dealers how 7-card stud is played....Stud Hi/Lo would have been a nightmare.

Is this a prudent direction? when...

""most members haven"t bothered (or don"t care) to learn variants other than NLHE"

Asking MORE of teams representing their countries is something to be encouraged.

So long as it"s not beyond their means to deliver.

[ian.ski309]

We"re a predominantly POKER association...it"s just that most members haven"t bothered (or don"t care) to learn variants other than NLHE.

If we accept this assertion as fact, you have to wonder why two variants of Omaha have now been incorporated into the team event structure. Surely this will exclude most members from applying to play for their country ? FWIW, I totally prefer PLO to NLHE and I agree that newcomers to the game generally enjoy it.

[fandango]

Scrap the schedual and play a 2 day 8game MTT..

Joking aside I believe APAT have made a great choice in introducing PLO8 as a format into the schedual, makes captains choosing a team think long and hard who to include in their squad, could make a big difference on the outcome over the two days..

[Paulie_D]

Regardless of the team event, I hope that APAT will make more efforts to introduce more variants into the S8 schedule.

A "variant" Main Event isn"t likely I know but perhaps rotate side events (PLO is already there and we"ve tried Stud at Luton).

Or perhaps we take a leaf out of the LPPL playbook and (subject to casino consent) try £10 [self-deal] STT/Shootouts during an APAT weekend.