An interesting decision

[amcgrath1uk]

So, against virtually any hand we"re approx 36% to win assuming it goes all in.

Is there not even the thought to a call here, as it"s ~30% of my chips?

I don"t tend to take a long time over decisions, especially when I"ve got someone waiting for me to win/get knocked out, but I did take approx 2 mins to decide on what to do with this one.

I"ll reveal what I did tomorrow morning.

[KarmaDope]

I"m liking the feedback so far.

What happened next:

I did c-bet the flop to 13k, and after not a lot of thought, he reraises to 38k.



4) Compared to his previous bets, he"s made this one relatively quickly

Just an addendum (obv I was there and saw the hand).

This was pretty much a snap raise. Asa bet the 13k and as soon as the dealer announced the bet size he was counting the chips out for the raise. No thought in there whatsoever, definitely seemed premeditated.

[pokerpops]

So, against virtually any hand we"re approx 36% to win assuming it goes all in.

Is there not even the thought to a call here, as it"s ~30% of my chips?

I don"t tend to take a long time over decisions, especially when I"ve got someone waiting for me to win/get knocked out, but I did take approx 2 mins to decide on what to do with this one.

I"ll reveal what I did tomorrow morning.

You"re probably not 36% if we include all the Axcc hands in his range.

Bet folding this feels pretty yuck, but feels appropriate.

If we give him a range of 22, 44 a lot of AXcc and maybe AcXx. I"m on my iPad so can"t stove this, but if he has the bigger flush draw we"re potentially dead on the turn.

[CW86]

Have only browsed this topic briefly, but main issue for me is our bet sizing.

Open for 8, c-bet 8-9.

Oh and fold to the c-raise for the reasons mentioned above

[amcgrath1uk]

My thoughts to points raised so far:

Preflop raise - Are we min raising every hand? I"m more than comfortable min raising, but that *little* extra tends to make people think more.

Continuation  bet - I want to win the pot. 8k/9k into approx 22k isn"t going to win that often. 13k imo will do more often. Yes, it does mean that any possible 3 bet will be slightly higher, and make a decision more difficult, but the here and now I want to win the pot. Again, my bet sizing is no different than at any other time.

Perception of opponent - Above all, this is the most important. The opponent has 3 bet us in this situation, but he is he perceiving that because I"ve shown strength, and good hands often, is he taking advantage?

How much are you planning to bet for him to be jamming?!!?!

I bet out for about 11k and expect him to fold fairly often. If he is a tight player do we not think he raises here with an A? Perfect flop for us to bet at IMO, as we actually have a bit of it.

This was my thought process. I believed I could get him to fold with a standard c bet, that did not work. But imo, we have a well disguised hand, we have a tight opponent who hasn"t raised preflop, and imo he was taking advantage of being a tight player.

The result:

After 2 minutes of thinking time, weighing up the relevant chipstacks, and the exact amounts of the relevant chips I had, I very deliberately took back my initial raise, took a 5k off my pile of chips, and put the rest out as a 4 bet, which added up to a min re-reraise of 65k. After 15 seconds or so, he folded. I don"t think my opponent realised it was a min reraise, but I know it signified strength, rather than just an all in shove.

Thoughts?

[pokerpops]

My thoughts to points raised so far:

Preflop raise - Are we min raising every hand? I"m more than comfortable min raising, but that *little* extra tends to make people think more.

Continuation  bet - I want to win the pot. 8k/9k into approx 22k isn"t going to win that often. 13k imo will do more often. Yes, it does mean that any possible 3 bet will be slightly higher, and make a decision more difficult, but the here and now I want to win the pot. Again, my bet sizing is no different than at any other time.

Perception of opponent - Above all, this is the most important. The opponent has 3 bet us in this situation, but he is he perceiving that because I"ve shown strength, and good hands often, is he taking advantage?

How much are you planning to bet for him to be jamming?!!?!

I bet out for about 11k and expect him to fold fairly often. If he is a tight player do we not think he raises here with an A? Perfect flop for us to bet at IMO, as we actually have a bit of it.

This was my thought process. I believed I could get him to fold with a standard c bet, that did not work. But imo, we have a well disguised hand, we have a tight opponent who hasn"t raised preflop, and imo he was taking advantage of being a tight player.

The result:

After 2 minutes of thinking time, weighing up the relevant chipstacks, and the exact amounts of the relevant chips I had, I very deliberately took back my initial raise, took a 5k off my pile of chips, and put the rest out as a 4 bet, which added up to a min re-reraise of 65k. After 15 seconds or so, he folded. I don"t think my opponent realised it was a min reraise, but I know it signified strength, rather than just an all in shove.

Thoughts?

How long are the levels in this???

[amcgrath1uk]

My thoughts to points raised so far:

Preflop raise - Are we min raising every hand? I"m more than comfortable min raising, but that *little* extra tends to make people think more.

Continuation  bet - I want to win the pot. 8k/9k into approx 22k isn"t going to win that often. 13k imo will do more often. Yes, it does mean that any possible 3 bet will be slightly higher, and make a decision more difficult, but the here and now I want to win the pot. Again, my bet sizing is no different than at any other time.

Perception of opponent - Above all, this is the most important. The opponent has 3 bet us in this situation, but he is he perceiving that because I"ve shown strength, and good hands often, is he taking advantage?

How much are you planning to bet for him to be jamming?!!?!

I bet out for about 11k and expect him to fold fairly often. If he is a tight player do we not think he raises here with an A? Perfect flop for us to bet at IMO, as we actually have a bit of it.

This was my thought process. I believed I could get him to fold with a standard c bet, that did not work. But imo, we have a well disguised hand, we have a tight opponent who hasn"t raised preflop, and imo he was taking advantage of being a tight player.

The result:

After 2 minutes of thinking time, weighing up the relevant chipstacks, and the exact amounts of the relevant chips I had, I very deliberately took back my initial raise, took a 5k off my pile of chips, and put the rest out as a 4 bet, which added up to a min re-reraise of 65k. After 15 seconds or so, he folded. I don"t think my opponent realised it was a min reraise, but I know it signified strength, rather than just an all in shove.

Thoughts?

How long are the levels in this???

Was either 20/25 mins, can"t honestly remember

[mporter123]

I dont have much more to add Asa.

Yes - min raising every hand. It really won"t make a difference when your deep in a tournament. If people want to start peeling you then we will be playing better than them post flop anyway so fine.

Ditto on C bet sizing. 9K into 22K compared to 13K won"t make a difference on this board. I might even go smaller. He either has a hand to continue with or not, its unlikely he is going to see you bet 9K and just spite peel KQ or something.

It worked this time but I don"t like it. Your just going to called by everthing that is beating you and given player type, your going to be called more often that your going to get folds. No need to level ourselves into thinking this guy is tight, he knows I know that so he is bluffing.

[TheSnapper]

I dont have much more to add Asa.

Yes - min raising every hand. It really won"t make a difference when your deep in a tournament. If people want to start peeling you then we will be playing better than them post flop anyway so fine.

Ditto on C bet sizing. 9K into 22K compared to 13K won"t make a difference on this board. I might even go smaller. He either has a hand to continue with or not, its unlikely he is going to see you bet 9K and just spite peel KQ or something.

It worked this time but I don"t like it. Your just going to called by everthing that is beating you and given player type, your going to be called more often that your going to get folds. No need to level ourselves into thinking this guy is tight, he knows I know that so he is bluffing.

^^^ Couldn"t put it better tbh.

Often in poker we want to make our mistakes at the correct time, I suspect that"s what happened here.

[bear21]

I dont have much more to add Asa.

Yes - min raising every hand. It really won"t make a difference when your deep in a tournament. If people want to start peeling you then we will be playing better than them post flop anyway so fine.

Ditto on C bet sizing. 9K into 22K compared to 13K won"t make a difference on this board. I might even go smaller. He either has a hand to continue with or not, its unlikely he is going to see you bet 9K and just spite peel KQ or something.

It worked this time but I don"t like it. Your just going to called by everthing that is beating you and given player type, your going to be called more often that your going to get folds. No need to level ourselves into thinking this guy is tight, he knows I know that so he is bluffing.

^^^ Couldn"t put it better tbh.

Often in poker we want to make our mistakes at the correct time, I suspect that"s what happened here.

ditto

[CW86]

I dont have much more to add Asa.

Yes - min raising every hand. It really won"t make a difference when your deep in a tournament. If people want to start peeling you then we will be playing better than them post flop anyway so fine.

Ditto on C bet sizing. 9K into 22K compared to 13K won"t make a difference on this board. I might even go smaller. He either has a hand to continue with or not, its unlikely he is going to see you bet 9K and just spite peel KQ or something.

one further note on bet sizing

If u feel u have an edge over the field you want to make the stacks as deep as possible, 40-60% for flop and turn allows this (whilst also giving us greater possibilities for bombing river etc)

[KarmaDope]

My thoughts to points raised so far:

Preflop raise - Are we min raising every hand? I"m more than comfortable min raising, but that *little* extra tends to make people think more.

Continuation  bet - I want to win the pot. 8k/9k into approx 22k isn"t going to win that often. 13k imo will do more often. Yes, it does mean that any possible 3 bet will be slightly higher, and make a decision more difficult, but the here and now I want to win the pot. Again, my bet sizing is no different than at any other time.

Perception of opponent - Above all, this is the most important. The opponent has 3 bet us in this situation, but he is he perceiving that because I"ve shown strength, and good hands often, is he taking advantage?

How much are you planning to bet for him to be jamming?!!?!

I bet out for about 11k and expect him to fold fairly often. If he is a tight player do we not think he raises here with an A? Perfect flop for us to bet at IMO, as we actually have a bit of it.

This was my thought process. I believed I could get him to fold with a standard c bet, that did not work. But imo, we have a well disguised hand, we have a tight opponent who hasn"t raised preflop, and imo he was taking advantage of being a tight player.

The result:

After 2 minutes of thinking time, weighing up the relevant chipstacks, and the exact amounts of the relevant chips I had, I very deliberately took back my initial raise, took a 5k off my pile of chips, and put the rest out as a 4 bet, which added up to a min re-reraise of 65k. After 15 seconds or so, he folded. I don"t think my opponent realised it was a min reraise, but I know it signified strength, rather than just an all in shove.

Thoughts?

How long are the levels in this???

20 mins.

[pokerpops]

2 minutes thunking time in a £20 comp with a 20 minute clock?

Fold pre

[pokerpops]

Interesting debate on the topic of shot clocks over on Blonde after this appeared.

http://calvinayre.com/2014/03/06/poker/are-the-wpt-about-to-change-the-face-of-live-tournament-poker/

[Fatcatstu]

2 minutes thunking time in a £20 comp with a 20 minute clock?

Fold pre

Ahh taking notes from the G2L school of posting I see Dave...