MTT question...

[hi_am_chris]

Any ace is a silly shove imo, id rather shove 78 suited and hands like that, id also rather let the blinds hit me and look to shove ATC from the small blind or button. In the tournament i shoved but i dont know if i would have shoved 66 or lower. If you get called with 66 your pretty much dead and at best racing

[AMRN]

On reflection I agree re any Ace - but in late position in an unopened pot, any Ace would be good enough for me.   I"d probably be inclined to push from any position into an unopened pot with any pair though, even 66 - not really much difference between 66 and 99........ if someone is going to call with a big ace, 99 is same odds as 66.

[hi_am_chris]

Agree im shoving any ace from hijack, cut off, button, sb, i just think shoving 99 you might get more hands you dominate calling you, 88 77 maybe 66 and also depending on stacks a9 a8 a7s at a push which are flipping with the small pairs. Some people espec in low buy in tournys cant let go of an ace or a pair.

[Swinebag]

I personally think that shove is standard here.

However I do like Jons thinking which, if I"m not mistaken, is to try and get another hand (that is a big dog to 99 and would normally fold to a shove) to shove.

This strategy does have many pitfalls but probably does increase the chances of a double up, and also of busting out.

[deanp27]

my opinion is that if you don"t shove this then you perhaps should take up marbles.

my shoving range may be alot lighter than this in the situation with 6bbs

[hi_am_chris]

My shoving range from late pos is a hell of a lot lighter. I just think you can find better spots to chip up than shoving utg or utg +1 with a small to medium pair. Even if the blinds hit you you still have fold equity and can open shove from late position. I think 9 handed its not uncommon to run into a bigger pair.

[Jon MW]

... I think 9 handed its not uncommon to run into a bigger pair.

It"s not uncommon because of the quantity of hands that get dealt.

But isn"t it about 16/1 that you get dealt a pocket pair?
If that isn"t exact, the probability is still higher than 9/1.

i.e. If you are dealt a pocket pair it is likely that no one else has been dealt one - let alone a higher one.

[Jon MW]

My shoving range from late pos is a hell of a lot lighter. I just think you can find better spots to chip up than shoving utg or utg +1 with a small to medium pair. Even if the blinds hit you you still have fold equity and can open shove from late position. I think 9 handed its not uncommon to run into a bigger pair.

... and even though I"m not saying that isn"t an unreasonable position to take generally - in this instance you have 6 big blinds! How much better are you going to get in the next few dozen hands?

[hi_am_chris]

hand wise probably not going to get any better but assuming the blinds go through me, hopefully ill get the chance to open shove from late position, anyways i pretty much insta shoved and got called by AA in the bb and the board ran out 34567 (not in that order), happy days lol

[Jon MW]

hand wise probably not going to get any better but assuming the blinds go through me, hopefully ill get the chance to open shove from late position, anyways i pretty much insta shoved and got called by AA in the bb and the board ran out 34567 (not in that order), happy days lol

lol - nice result.

[AMRN]

... I think 9 handed its not uncommon to run into a bigger pair.

It"s not uncommon because of the quantity of hands that get dealt.

But isn"t it about 16/1 that you get dealt a pocket pair?
If that isn"t exact, the probability is still higher than 9/1.

i.e. If you are dealt a pocket pair it is likely that no one else has been dealt one - let alone a higher one.

20/52 to hit either a T, J, Q, K or A. Then 3/51 to hit the pairing card....

(52/20) x (51/3) = 44/1 to be up against a pair that dominates 99.  With only 8 players to get through, those odds work really well for me.

[hi_am_chris]

Are those the right odds for gala and the pokerroom network tho ...  

[Jon MW]

... I think 9 handed its not uncommon to run into a bigger pair.

It"s not uncommon because of the quantity of hands that get dealt.

But isn"t it about 16/1 that you get dealt a pocket pair?
If that isn"t exact, the probability is still higher than 9/1.

i.e. If you are dealt a pocket pair it is likely that no one else has been dealt one - let alone a higher one.

20/52 to hit either a T, J, Q, K or A. Then 3/51 to hit the pairing card....

(52/20) x (51/3) = 44/1 to be up against a pair that dominates 99.  With only 8 players to get through, those odds work really well for me.

And as well as shoving - this is also the odds that you are up against a hand that dominates you if you limp with 99.

But given the wide range of peoples shoving hands and the short stacks all round - there is a much higher chance that you will get a hand on your table to shove after you limp.

Obviously there is a risk that you will pick up a load of limpers and nobody will raise, there is a risk that even if you only had one limper they might hit top pair, there is a risk that a higher pair will be dealt (like in this case), and there is a risk that any hands you are beating pre flop outdraw you - but I think in this kind of scenario then an opportunity to gamble for a double up against one player, or for the chip lead against many players is too good an opportunity to miss.

But shoving and taking the blinds is the safe option if you"re too risk averse.  

[AMRN]

Are those the right odds for gala and the pokerroom network tho ...  

LOL nice one!!

[AMRN]

... I think 9 handed its not uncommon to run into a bigger pair.

It"s not uncommon because of the quantity of hands that get dealt.

But isn"t it about 16/1 that you get dealt a pocket pair?
If that isn"t exact, the probability is still higher than 9/1.

i.e. If you are dealt a pocket pair it is likely that no one else has been dealt one - let alone a higher one.

20/52 to hit either a T, J, Q, K or A. Then 3/51 to hit the pairing card....

(52/20) x (51/3) = 44/1 to be up against a pair that dominates 99.  With only 8 players to get through, those odds work really well for me.

And as well as shoving - this is also the odds that you are up against a hand that dominates you if you limp with 99.

But given the wide range of peoples shoving hands and the short stacks all round - there is a much higher chance that you will get a hand on your table to shove after you limp.

Obviously there is a risk that you will pick up a load of limpers and nobody will raise, there is a risk that even if you only had one limper they might hit top pair, there is a risk that a higher pair will be dealt (like in this case), and there is a risk that any hands you are beating pre flop outdraw you - but I think in this kind of scenario then an opportunity to gamble for a double up against one player, or for the chip lead against many players is too good an opportunity to miss.

But shoving and taking the blinds is the safe option if you"re too risk averse.  

BUT, shoving rather than limping will give you another chance of winning - people might fold. A shove here could get rid of anything up to AJ for example...... but a limp could potentially put you into a flop against overcards.  what would you do if you limped and everyone folded round to the BB.... flop then comes T 8 4.... and he shoves? he might shove there with any two cards and you would have a tough decision.  Personally I would prefer to take the decision and the play out of the hand preflop with such a marginal hand