AA fold or call ?

[kinboshi]

NB: I also agree with Haworth"s point that shoving preflop and hoping it holds up isn"t what I"d enter any tournament for.

Unfortunately, that"s the nature of the NLHE beast.  You will at some stage have at least half your stack in the middle racing or at least hoping your hand holds up against a weaker starting hand.  Often the chips will go in pre-flop.

But if I have the average or larger than average stack (in a deep stacked tournament) then generally I"m happy to fold to another deep stacked player

With AA pre-flop in a tournament that"s not a satellite?

[HaworthBantam]

quote from: Jon the Hat

 

[Jon MW]

For those that are folding here, how about this scenario:

Later in the tournament, not too far from the bubble (cash bubble, final table bubble, whatever) - and you are short.

You have AA on the button and are delighted, and a player in early position who has you covered goes all-in.

You surely call, don"t you?  Even though you have no fold equity and if you lose, you"re out.  What about if Billy Big Stack is sitting in the BB, and he has both of you covered easily and does like a good call...

Blinds are 1500 - 3000 with an ante of 400

There are 668 players left - 2 off the money
You freerolled the entry and expenses

You have 432,000 chips
Chip daddy has 630,000 chips
Short stack has 18,000 chips

short stack goes all in
Chip daddy raises all in
you have AA on the button

If you do nothing for half an hour or so you will still be deep stacked, with a guaranteed $21,000 profit for the trip.

If you call and go out you"ve had a great trip and a great experience.

Do you call?

Does the great experience mean that much to you?
Does $21,000 mean so little to you?
If you call and win you"re one of the WSOP Main Event chip leaders (pretty cool) but you"ve still got 666 players to beat - are you so confident in your own ability that you expect to not lose your lead?

[HaworthBantam]

No brainer, bye bye aces.

[kinboshi]

For those that are folding here, how about this scenario:

Later in the tournament, not too far from the bubble (cash bubble, final table bubble, whatever) - and you are short.

You have AA on the button and are delighted, and a player in early position who has you covered goes all-in.

You surely call, don"t you?  Even though you have no fold equity and if you lose, you"re out.  What about if Billy Big Stack is sitting in the BB, and he has both of you covered easily and does like a good call...

Blinds are 1500 - 3000 with an ante of 400

There are 668 players left - 2 off the money
You freerolled the entry and expenses

You have 432,000 chips
Chip daddy has 630,000 chips
Short stack has 18,000 chips

short stack goes all in
Chip daddy raises all in
you have AA on the button

If you do nothing for half an hour or so you will still be deep stacked, with a guaranteed $21,000 profit for the trip.

If you call and go out you"ve had a great trip and a great experience.

Do you call?

Does the great experience mean that much to you?
Does $21,000 mean so little to you?
If you call and win you"re one of the WSOP Main Event chip leaders (pretty cool) but you"ve still got 666 players to beat - are you so confident in your own ability that you expect to not lose your lead?

This scenario is VERY different to the original post isn"t it?

You "only" have to negotiate a couple of places, and have a stack that you can do this with, expecting others to bust out before you.

Surviving the first hand/level/hour/day at the WSOP ME means nothing in terms of a ROI.  Folding that hand guarantees you nothing.  The benefit of doubling up there is important.  It doesn"t win you anything of course, but it certainly makes your life easier and provides you with a platform from which to build.

There is no way that folding AA early on to the shove of another player makes sense to me.  KK yes, but that"s because of the range I put the other player on, and I"m often (always?) behind.  In this scenario (from the OP), I"m ALWAYS ahead (unless the other player has AA also - and then I"ll hit my flush anyway).

I know that I don"t have an "edge" over the rest of the field that I can afford to fold aces here. 

[Jon MW]

...

But if I have the average or larger than average stack (in a deep stacked tournament) then generally I"m happy to fold to another deep stacked player

With AA pre-flop in a tournament that"s not a satellite?

I was answering this question

[mrmacacan]

WOW guys, good feedback.

Interesting to see so many views on some fold for different reasons and some call for different reasons.

Prob none of us will be 100% sure till it hapens.
Then again think some replies are 100% sure.

[oneill1970]

I"m going to try to remember who replied what so"s I can shove in with 72o in the opening hand of next year"s Main Event...

[kinboshi]

I"m going to try to remember who replied what so"s I can shove in with 72o in the opening hand of next year"s Main Event...

I"ll call with AA.  Probably fold KK though.  

[Spikelad]

What an excellent question and it is interesting to see how different people would tackle these scenarios.My feeling is that i would push all-in every time but it has certainly made me think.