Author Topic: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion  (Read 80920 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bigfella42

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Silver Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 497
  • Vague memories of being in Vegas
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #90 on: March 24, 2017, 22:05:20 PM »
As someone who stopped playing poker last year after 16 years, I will make a few observations. I hope they are not considered too negative but for a start I will give the reasons I have never played an APAT event. A seat is not guaranteed unless you reserve one in advance, and then the reserve deposit is lost, not considered part of the buy in.

I love the old games rather than NLHE all the time, in fact I came to hate the game. So for me there would never be enough stud and omaha type games to make it worthwhile a few days overnight stay to play the APAT. The only place that now does those games is the WSOP - perhaps a trip to the WSOP if ever I get off my arse and inspired enough to play again and donk off £10-15k. I know that's a lot more than a few quid to reserve an APAT seat but I consider that deposit money being lost to be a bit of an insult.

The APAT was sometimes tempting but it just never had enough of those alternative games (not the dreaded open face thing) to break through my increasing apathy. APAT is a very commendable thing, and I hope you keep going, but I also hope you broaden the appeal with a few more stud or omaha type games, not fewer. I know that's the way it's gone, and that's the way it will keep going. God I hate holdem.



You can buy in online at Grosvenor Poker, no deposit needed.

Brings back memories when we had the click fest for events - happy days :)
APAT Scotland runner up 2008
APAT Sotland final table 2009
If it's not in Scotland you can forget it!

Sugar_Free

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 756
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #91 on: March 24, 2017, 22:20:45 PM »
As someone who stopped playing poker last year after 16 years, I will make a few observations. I hope they are not considered too negative but for a start I will give the reasons I have never played an APAT event. A seat is not guaranteed unless you reserve one in advance, and then the reserve deposit is lost, not considered part of the buy in.

I love the old games rather than NLHE all the time, in fact I came to hate the game. So for me there would never be enough stud and omaha type games to make it worthwhile a few days overnight stay to play the APAT. The only place that now does those games is the WSOP - perhaps a trip to the WSOP if ever I get off my arse and inspired enough to play again and donk off £10-15k. I know that's a lot more than a few quid to reserve an APAT seat but I consider that deposit money being lost to be a bit of an insult.

The APAT was sometimes tempting but it just never had enough of those alternative games (not the dreaded open face thing) to break through my increasing apathy. APAT is a very commendable thing, and I hope you keep going, but I also hope you broaden the appeal with a few more stud or omaha type games, not fewer. I know that's the way it's gone, and that's the way it will keep going. God I hate holdem.



I've guaranteed a seat in both the Omaha games without paying a non-refundable deposit. I've bought in direct in advance via Grosvenor Online
S4 G UK Team - LPM
S6 S UK Online, B Online Team Cup, Home Internationals - England "B", Irish Online
S7 G (& Bracelet) WCOAP Online
S8 G Scottish Online, B WCOAP Stud
S9 S WCOAP Team - England, B UK Team - LPM
S10 S Irish Online, England Captain - WCOAP
S13 B UK Team - APAT Degens

TheSquirrel

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #92 on: March 24, 2017, 22:43:48 PM »
Thanks guys, but I'm not a member of Grosvenor poker online, I rarely played online. I think if there were a decent razz game and one or two decent stud or stud omaha mix games I might have been tempted (although I'm probably too far gone with the laziness and apathy), but I shall follow the event with interest and see what people have to say about it.

Chipaccrual

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
    • APAT
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #93 on: March 25, 2017, 08:36:12 AM »
Hi Anthony,

Thanks for your feedback, it's always appreciated.

When putting a schedule together, it's always about finding a balance in the variants we offer.  Our WCOAP event is now in its 9th year, and it has grown each year, offering recreational players a variety of poker variants for a low buy.  We pride ourselves on giving the best possible structure we can within the constraints of the venue and staffing.

I'm not sure where you have been able to get your fix of live non-holdem tournaments over the past 16 years, but I'm quite surprised you've never decided to give an APAT event a go at some point.  My understanding of the UK poker scene is that you will see the odd variant tournament, but they are few and far between.

The reservation fee is just another way APAT has innovated to give players flexibility in how they can play our events.  We don't force players down that route, as we always run online holding tanks (with no fee) for all our events, plus players can just turn up on the day (although as our events do have a cap, we cannot guarantee spaces will be available).

You don't need to follow the event to see what people have to say.  We've got 10 years of feedback on APAT events.  You'll not find anywhere else in the UK where you can pit your wits against likeminded lovers of non-holdem games.  They are a geeky bunch, but we love them for it :)


Leigh

TheSquirrel

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #94 on: March 25, 2017, 12:46:04 PM »
Hi Anthony,

Thanks for your feedback, it's always appreciated.

When putting a schedule together, it's always about finding a balance in the variants we offer.  Our WCOAP event is now in its 9th year, and it has grown each year, offering recreational players a variety of poker variants for a low buy.  We pride ourselves on giving the best possible structure we can within the constraints of the venue and staffing.

I'm not sure where you have been able to get your fix of live non-holdem tournaments over the past 16 years, but I'm quite surprised you've never decided to give an APAT event a go at some point.  My understanding of the UK poker scene is that you will see the odd variant tournament, but they are few and far between.

The reservation fee is just another way APAT has innovated to give players flexibility in how they can play our events.  We don't force players down that route, as we always run online holding tanks (with no fee) for all our events, plus players can just turn up on the day (although as our events do have a cap, we cannot guarantee spaces will be available).

You don't need to follow the event to see what people have to say.  We've got 10 years of feedback on APAT events.  You'll not find anywhere else in the UK where you can pit your wits against likeminded lovers of non-holdem games.  They are a geeky bunch, but we love them for it :)


Leigh


Hi there,
Thanks for your reply. I suppose I have never played APAT because of the policy of losing the reservation fee rather than it counting towards the buy in. I always considered a reservation fee should be lost if you don't take your seat but counted towards your buy in if you do. I will not buy in ahead of time in case I can't make it, but you cannot guarantee a seat, so I am not willing to travel in case I don't get one.

I am lucky in the Genting Luton laying a dealer's choice or omaha tourney once or twice a week, which is where I played towards the end. Most of the years I played and the money I ground out was at low level holdem, but I started to hate it. I couldn't earn enough to make it worthwhile playing unless I was enjoying it, and I wasn't. The mixed games and omaha tourneys had no money in them but were more enjoyable, and I was playing against people half of whom were better than I was.

I will probably not play an APAT for the above reasons, but I understand your reasons for doing things the way you do. Thanks for replying to a post which was a bit of a moan, but I did want to at least leave some sort of feedback. I have never played APAT and at least wanted to inform why. Sad to see some of those games fading away but nice to see some members here still registering support for them.

If I'd have played one or two I may have got into it. I think I would certainly have prefered your bunch to the ever present slow playing hoodies around nowadays.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 12:54:28 PM by TheSquirrel »

LombBomb

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Silver Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #95 on: March 26, 2017, 20:19:19 PM »
Tom could you confirm the start time for the 6-Max on the opening Saturday.  It's listed on here at 5pm but Grosvenor client says 6pm.  Thanks.
Captain of Scotland WCOAP Team Winners - London 2016
Welsh Open PLO Champion - Bristol 2014
Scotland Bronze Medallist APAT ECOAP - Prague 2013
Scotland Home International Champions - Stoke 2012
Twitter: www.twitter.com/TomClark
HM: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=261278

IrishTom

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3064
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #96 on: March 26, 2017, 20:52:39 PM »
Tom could you confirm the start time for the 6-Max on the opening Saturday.  It's listed on here at 5pm but Grosvenor client says 6pm.  Thanks.

5pm Tom, and thanks for the Heads Up... I'll check the G client.
Facebook: Tom Brady (Plymouth)
Twitter: TomBradyLPPL

IrishTom

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3064
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #97 on: March 26, 2017, 21:00:26 PM »
Tom could you confirm the start time for the 6-Max on the opening Saturday.  It's listed on here at 5pm but Grosvenor client says 6pm.  Thanks.

5pm Tom, and thanks for the Heads Up... I'll check the G client.

Seems timings have changed with the clock going forward mate... all timings are as per the APAT website... the holding tanks close this coming Friday so we'll just let them 'play out'...

We'll have contact details for all individuals who buy in via G Holding Tanks, and next week I'll be sending them all info and will confirm the full schedule at the same time...


Facebook: Tom Brady (Plymouth)
Twitter: TomBradyLPPL

LombBomb

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Silver Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #98 on: March 26, 2017, 23:03:37 PM »
Tom could you confirm the start time for the 6-Max on the opening Saturday.  It's listed on here at 5pm but Grosvenor client says 6pm.  Thanks.

5pm Tom, and thanks for the Heads Up... I'll check the G client.

Seems timings have changed with the clock going forward mate... all timings are as per the APAT website... the holding tanks close this coming Friday so we'll just let them 'play out'...

We'll have contact details for all individuals who buy in via G Holding Tanks, and next week I'll be sending them all info and will confirm the full schedule at the same time...




Thanks mate.  Suspected it would have been something to do with the clocks.
Captain of Scotland WCOAP Team Winners - London 2016
Welsh Open PLO Champion - Bristol 2014
Scotland Bronze Medallist APAT ECOAP - Prague 2013
Scotland Home International Champions - Stoke 2012
Twitter: www.twitter.com/TomClark
HM: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=261278

IrishTom

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3064
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #99 on: March 27, 2017, 00:11:13 AM »
We'll be rolling out the full structures of every event throughout this week...

and we're pleased to start with Day 1, specifically the opening event of the WCOAP 2017 - the 8-Game Players  Championship HERE which is returning for a second year after the inaugural holding final hand played out between Haresh Thacker and Ady Lovelock as...

Texas Hold'em

Haresh loses some in the next hand and then.........

he raises, Ady reraises and they get it all in Pre-Flop.

Haresh 9c 10c
Ady     Qs 10d

Ady is ahead and picks up a flush draw along the way, which he misses, but Haresh misses a possible straight and Ady stays ahead.

6s 10s  Ks Jd Kc

and Ady Lovelock was crowned the first WCOAP 8-Game Champion...

Schedules for Day 1 also confirmed are the Irish Championship (reigning Champion Jason Cooper) and Six Max Championship (reigning Champion Marco Wouters).

Facebook: Tom Brady (Plymouth)
Twitter: TomBradyLPPL

Bigfella42

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Silver Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 497
  • Vague memories of being in Vegas
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #100 on: March 27, 2017, 09:29:18 AM »
Can someone show me a link to where to reserve a seat via eventbrite please.
APAT Scotland runner up 2008
APAT Sotland final table 2009
If it's not in Scotland you can forget it!

Chipaccrual

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
    • APAT
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #101 on: March 27, 2017, 09:32:33 AM »
Can someone show me a link to where to reserve a seat via eventbrite please.

EVENTBRITE LINK

Bigfella42

  • Staker Licensed Player
  • Silver Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 497
  • Vague memories of being in Vegas
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #102 on: March 27, 2017, 09:37:26 AM »
Can someone show me a link to where to reserve a seat via eventbrite please.

EVENTBRITE LINK
Cheers Leigh.
APAT Scotland runner up 2008
APAT Sotland final table 2009
If it's not in Scotland you can forget it!

Des

  • Administrator
  • Platinum Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10252
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #103 on: March 27, 2017, 13:00:35 PM »
As someone who stopped playing poker last year after 16 years, I will make a few observations. I hope they are not considered too negative but for a start I will give the reasons I have never played an APAT event. A seat is not guaranteed unless you reserve one in advance, and then the reserve deposit is lost, not considered part of the buy in.

I love the old games rather than NLHE all the time, in fact I came to hate the game. So for me there would never be enough stud and omaha type games to make it worthwhile a few days overnight stay to play the APAT. The only place that now does those games is the WSOP - perhaps a trip to the WSOP if ever I get off my arse and inspired enough to play again and donk off £10-15k. I know that's a lot more than a few quid to reserve an APAT seat but I consider that deposit money being lost to be a bit of an insult.

The APAT was sometimes tempting but it just never had enough of those alternative games (not the dreaded open face thing) to break through my increasing apathy. APAT is a very commendable thing, and I hope you keep going, but I also hope you broaden the appeal with a few more stud or omaha type games, not fewer. I know that's the way it's gone, and that's the way it will keep going. God I hate holdem.



Hi Anthony,

I should take the first part of this question as I was (and continue to be) the biggest exponent of the reservation fee at APAT.  I should explain why we do it.

For years we offered a free 'reserve a seat' feature through the forum and we always had a large percentage of reserving players (50% minimum) let us down on the day.  That meant certain other players weren't coming to events because they believed we were sold out in advance.  Remember, APAT isn't a local game, so it became a barrier to many to travel across country for a game, when a motorway delay might mean there aren't any seats left when you arrive.

So we added a reservation fee.  

This increased the reliability of the system and allowed us to continue to offer the system.  However, we didn't do this as a money making scheme - it helps a little, but is a relatively small income line.  

We offered it alongside direct buy in via our online partner - which had no fees attached, not even a requirement to play online.  We also continue to offer online sats and we continue to offer seats in advance via the venue and on the day if availability allows.  We've tried to offer something for everyone.  Paid and free.

Why don't we offer a refund?  

It would become an admin nightmare and doing so would erode that small commitment that we ask members to make for this optional service, possibly increasing no shows again.  

Why didn't we include it within the buyin?

Again, an admin nightmare that we're simply not resourced to manage well. Quality is very important to the team at APAT, if we can't do it well, we don't do it at all.  Even if it means we make a small profit on the activity.

Plus it's fantastic in this day and age to be able to offer a single button on the APAT home page that will enable a new player to get a seat without needing to download stuff or worry about getting to the venue days early.  That's what today's mobile users expect.  

That and the tons of value like Vegas packages that we add.  ;)

If you haven't experienced APAT before, then I'd encourage you to.  In fact, I'd be happy to personally pay your reservation fees for an event or two so that you can see how good we are.  PM me if you'd like to take me up on my offer.

ps - I pushed the multi format events for years also and am extremely proud of the schedule that Tom has put together for Manchester.  We might well be the friendliest poker tour in the UK - I know we're the oldest - but that doesn't stop our players being very competitive and ensuring that we grow our non hold'em schedule is something that we'll continue to do.  I think Tom will have some good news on that front in our S11 announcement, which I suspect is coming soon.

Cheers,

Des.
Email: des@apat.com
Facebook: Des Duffy
Twitter: Des Duffy

Sugar_Free

  • Gold Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 756
Re: WCOAP 2017 - Discussion
« Reply #104 on: March 27, 2017, 13:24:06 PM »
S4 G UK Team - LPM
S6 S UK Online, B Online Team Cup, Home Internationals - England "B", Irish Online
S7 G (& Bracelet) WCOAP Online
S8 G Scottish Online, B WCOAP Stud
S9 S WCOAP Team - England, B UK Team - LPM
S10 S Irish Online, England Captain - WCOAP
S13 B UK Team - APAT Degens