NO SNOW - 2 a.m. finishes ... Structure!?

[Honeybadg]

... it seems like a crazy time to be finishing on a Sunday night ...

Structure to be tweaked ... if there are 200 runners needs more of a twist I think.

I would be keen to kick antes in quicker ... only way to induce early action with "rocks" getting eaten away.

Various other threads have eluded to the fact this was a one off ... but it looked like a late late finish from very early on.

It must have affected some players needing to get home etc ...

I look forward to thoughts.

Louis

[rubertoe]

never made it past the dinner break - so no comment!!!

[Honeybadg]

... I should have also said that the structure on paper looks excellent ... but with so many "rocks" ... I would expect the same to happen again ... if you clip a level out ... you might finish an hour earlier ... still very late if you need to be at work the next day in some other city!

L

[DrMarbles]

After chatting to various players over the weekend, ideas to get to the final table quicker include dropping the 500/1000 level, having a split dinner break, making the antes increase more quickly and breathalysing players.

[WASP]

The structure was spot on and no need to be tweaked IMO.  Maybe rulings need to tweaked like "calling clock is not in the APAT spirit" as we had no play in the last level and we wasn"t allowed to call clock when players were tank folding for 5 mins a round.

Also there was a loooooong delay before the final table, for probably over 2 hours, not APAT's fault but people were waiting for food etc.  If we had just had a quick break and started again we"d have been done well before midnight.

You cannot judge a structure on one tourney it needs to be run a few times before you get a fuller picture.

[SirPercival]

I don"t think many players who reach the final stages have a problem with the late finish. Up until this event we had all been saying more chips, longer levels, more levels etc.

The real issue is those guys who put in all the effort to make it all happen. These people also have jobs to go to on Mondays (except Leigh "I"m a Pro" Wiltshire of course).

It is for this reason, and also because APAT's intention was always to accomodate those mear mortals like me that have jobs, that any changes needed should be welcomed.

I for one agree with Andrew"s collected ideas. Split dinner works well but it does rely on the casino being organised to cope with it. Someone said they now do this at the GUKPT events so it could work.

The 2 hour break before the FT didn"t help either (not the fault of APAT)

Is an earlier start on the Sunday possible?

[HaworthBantam]

From the APAT rules, for info.....

 44.  Calling for the clock procedures: Once a reasonable amount of time has passed and a clock is called for, a player will be given one minute to make a decision.  If action has not been taken by the time the minute is over, there will be a ten second countdown.  If a player has not acted on his hand by the time the countdown is over, the hand will be dead.  The following individuals, without exception, are entitled to call a clock on a player;-

        1. Tournament Director.
        2. Table Dealer.
        3. Another player participating in that specific hand.

For the avoidance of doubt, the clock cannot be called on a player by another player who is not participating in the hand in question.

[Honeybadg]

... if people were taking 5 mins to make a fold then that is ridiculous ...

As I said I think the structure is excellent on paper ...

So ... say I am involved in a hand when roughly can I call for the clock ... what"s reasonable?

I think a minute is reasonable to make a decision - but others will disagree.

The point about most players not minding the late finish doesn"t help those that do mind it ... I was neutral for this tournament - it would have been easy for me to stay.

In the briefing the estimated was 10pm. (Late enough)

One idea to induce play would be to keep a tally of knock outs and have an "assasin" award for each tournament. (Scrub if this is an admin nightmare).

Well played the APAT team.

Louis

[Bodddders]

Had clock called on me on Saturday (no probs). Only thing was that someone not in the hand was asking for the clock, I politely informed them it wasn"t there place to ask. (again no probs).

Don"t agree that clocks are not in the Apat spirit they are there to make sure the game flows. Holding the game up is not in the Apat spirit.

[AMRN]

Personally, I thought the structure was absolutely perfect (but then I would, wouldn"t I?).  However the finish was a little too late for a Sunday night, given that most people play the game with every intention of going to work on Monday morning.

We started at 14:30 on Sunday, but I was at the casino at 13:00, and the place was already starting to buzz..... don"t see why we couldn"t have started at 14:00. Then, if the casino had been a little more organised around the dinner break, and the break had lasted for one hour max, that would have cut a total of 1.5 hours from the day, and the game would have ended around midnight......  in my opinion, that would have been spot on.

One other thing to take a look at is the sizing of the antes. In some levels the ratio of ante to small blind was 10:1.... I think the highest I saw it was 6:1.  If the antes were just slightly larger and running between 4:1 and 6:1, the pots would have been more attractive for stealing, and would have induced more play (and stopped all that silly passive folding when down to the lasst three )

Overall though, the structure was as good as I"ve ever played - I loved it.

[Honeybadg]

... yes pump the antes ... give an expectation to people what is a reasonable time to act within ... great format ...

L

[linziwan]

Is an earlier start on the Sunday possible?

I too love the structure as it is but if the Casino can accommodate it Stuart"s idea of an earlier start on the Sunday would be great. For those people that have stayed overnight in a hotel the check out time is normally 11am (even if they give you a late check out it will normally only be to 12 or 1) so its a long time from checking out of the hotel to restarting the tournament.

My vote an earlier start.

Personnaly I think day 1 could have gone quicker.

• For political correctness, lets just say there was some slow play for various reasons and

• late on day 1 it seemed a small stack just would not die gracefully (myself included), we just kepted doubling back up. I think the record was Brendon (sorry if I got your name wrong) who came back from 100 chips when the blinds were 800/1600 and eventually went out about 50th place

Please please don"t change the structure toooo much

[Jon MW]

The structure was spot on and no need to be tweaked IMO.  Maybe rulings need to tweaked like "calling clock is not in the APAT spirit" as we had no play in the last level and we wasn"t allowed to call clock when players were tank folding for 5 mins a round.

Also there was a loooooong delay before the final table, for probably over 2 hours, not APAT's fault but people were waiting for food etc.  If we had just had a quick break and started again we"d have been done well before midnight.

You cannot judge a structure on one tourney it needs to be run a few times before you get a fuller picture.

I pretty much agree with this.

It is possible that a slight tweak to the size of the antes could improve matters, and if we could start on Sunday at 1pm it certainly shouldn"t cause any harm.

Apart from that though I think a "wait and see" approach would be more appropriate for the time being.

[Robbiebox]

[X] Sunday night 2am finish is too late for the majority with Monday morning work looming.

Q. Can we keep the same excellent structure and finish at a reasonable time Sunday?


A. (my answer anyway) Play is stopped so early on the Saturday night (just after 1am)?
Many players have to come back the next day with maybe little play and no g"tee of cashing. Not too bad for those who stay over, but quite a few travel home for the Sat night.
I beleive it took 1:45hours to reach the money stages on the Sunday, If possible I beleive playing down to the money should be done on the Saturday night, this would have meant a 3am finish this Saturday.Another time saver as already suggested restart the tourney earlier on the Sunday.

Don"t alter the structure it was great ! and almost mirrors the GUKPT, lets just use the time better.

[AceOnTheRiver]

Is an earlier start on the Sunday possible?

I too love the structure as it is but if the Casino can accommodate it Stuart"s idea of an earlier start on the Sunday would be great. For those people that have stayed overnight in a hotel the check out time is normally 11am (even if they give you a late check out it will normally only be to 12 or 1) so its a long time from checking out of the hotel to restarting the tournament.

My vote an earlier start.

Personnaly I think day 1 could have gone quicker.

• For political correctness, lets just say there was some slow play for various reasons and

• late on day 1 it seemed a small stack just would not die gracefully (myself included), we just kepted doubling back up. I think the record was Brendon (sorry if I got your name wrong) who came back from 100 chips when the blinds were 800/1600 and eventually went out about 50th place

Please please don"t change the structure toooo much

+1

I read this thread at work and loged on at home with a view to posting a very similar point, lots of time to kill between 11am check out at 2.30pm start. Also agree with Robbiebox that more play possible on Saturday.

Keep the structure, I love it and I doubt I"ll be playing in a GUKPT main event any day soon