Making a hero fold???

[ThinkerJE]

The following 2 hands occurred over the weekend and I folded both times, question is am I trying to be a hero by folding pocket aces.

Home game, good read on opponent, been naming his exact hands all night.  I raise UTG with AA and he thinks for ages on the button before making the flat call.  Flop comes Q2Q and I bet out around 2/3 pot.  He pushes all in and although I have him covered it will cripple me if I call and lose.  Into the tank, I reason that he would not put his chips in without a queen and so fold, turns out he had TT, doh!!!

Online SNG, first hand, 3 limpers, SB completes, I"m BB with AA and raise to 150 (15/30 blinds), called by UTG and button.  Flop and I bet 350, UTG pushes and button re pushes.  I figure one has a set and the other a flush draw so fold.  UTG shows 99 and button , turn river , doh (2) !!!

Thoughts???

[jbworldwide]

The following 2 hands occurred over the weekend and I folded both times, question is am I trying to be a hero by folding pocket aces.

Home game, good read on opponent, been naming his exact hands all night.  I raise UTG with AA and he thinks for ages on the button before making the flat call.  Flop comes Q2Q and I bet out around 2/3 pot.  He pushes all in and although I have him covered it will cripple me if I call and lose.  Into the tank, I reason that he would not put his chips in without a queen and so fold, turns out he had TT, doh!!!

Online SNG, first hand, 3 limpers, SB completes, I"m BB with AA and raise to 150 (15/30 blinds), called by UTG and button.  Flop and I bet 350, UTG pushes and button re pushes.  I figure one has a set and the other a flush draw so fold.  UTG shows 99 and button , turn river , doh (2) !!!

Thoughts???

you are thinking about it too much  

[LongshanksED]

1st hand

chances of him having a 3rd 3 when 2 are on the board is low - now and again the villian does have it but when 2 are on the board im confident of my bullets being good


2nd hand
im never folding in this position - if your up againsta set - **** happens and with the flush draw then if your outdrawn it happens but again im never folding here


as the previous poster said - you seem to be thinking too much, over anaylsing maybe?

[Swinebag]

First hand.

I"d definitely call here as this player is possibly using your own image against you.

second hand.

I think its a good fold. Not that I would ever lay down AA in this situation because I"m not good enough to.

[RioRodent]

I think I struggle to fold in either situation... the first scenario, being a live home game, is obviously much more dependant on how well you know each other"s game.

In the SnG, certainly at the lower levels (upto say $20), with half the field already having limped in, I think you need a bigger PF re-raise. 150 chips just doesn"t look like a large enough chunk out of 1500 to get all the dross out of the hand, especially if one the EP"s calls... it"s likely they"ll all come along!

You need to make it 600-800... let them know they are gonna be risking their whole stack! In fact just pushing PF, with all those limpers, is probably a better move, the guy with 99 will call often enough to make it profitable.

[deanp27]

you"d probably get more meaningful responses by not posting results, just the action up to your decision.

1. read dependant but as well as having a Q, the flop is good for mid pairs too - i probably don"t fold here.

2. preflop is fine, i probably don"t fold this either in an online SNG but i don"t think folding is terrible with the action as it passes, fairly marginal.

[hi_am_chris]

make it 600 to 800 preflop with the blinds 15 and 30? Think the raise he made is fine, could make it anywhere from 150 to 210 ish. That raise shud have got it heads up with the pair and then the flop would have been perfect for you. The guy with a4s shouldnt even be in the hand. Dont hate the fold, could easily be up against a set and even against the flush draw its not the worst place to fold this early on although obviously it turned out to be a good spot for u

[bigredders]

i think the first hand i would be calling all day... the short think before calling smacks of a middle to high-ish pair(decision whether to call or raise) if it is kq/qj your just unlucky.
i think the 2nd hand is a good fold for the 1st hand in a sit and go. Over time you would lose more than you win in that position. Even with a flush draw he still has a 30% chance(*ish) of outdrawing you, and thats probably the best case scenario in that position.
i think that sometimes we like to think that we can fold pocket aces and that makes us good players, because we have folded the biggest starting hand(im included in this!). I think in the first hand if he hadnt shown you would still probably think you made a really good laydown to this day!

[RioRodent]

make it 600 to 800 preflop with the blinds 15 and 30? Think the raise he made is fine, could make it anywhere from 150 to 210 ish. That raise shud have got it heads up with the pair and then the flop would have been perfect for you. The guy with a4s shouldnt even be in the hand. Dont hate the fold, could easily be up against a set and even against the flush draw its not the worst place to fold this early on although obviously it turned out to be a good spot for u

This [the underlined parts] is exactly my reasoning for going OTT with the raise.

Yes, the raise should have been enough to get HU with the 99... No, the A4s shouldn"t be there at the flop... However, as we can see that is not the case and, in my experince [in low buy-in SnGs] it will rarely be enough to thin the field as intended.

With four limpers in front... get "em in, one of them will call.  

[tonyj444]

Hand1:  If you"re going to pass to a shove, why bet the flop?  On that sort of flop you are more than likely miles ahead or dead in the water.  Given the flat-call pre it seems fair to eliminate AA/KK/QQ (&JJ?) from his range so what are you hoping he has if you bet and what do you expect him to do with it?  It seems unlikely he will continue with any hands that missed e.g. AJ unless he puts you on air also, in which case he more than likely shoves.  Likewise, it is a tough spot for a hand lik 99/TT to flat call in with lots of overcards to come and a decent chance that you may be holding them so again, a shove is reasonable.  The only hand he is likely to flat-call with on this board is one with a Q in it (although a shove with this hand is also reasonable).  Personally, unless you are both deepstacked I think I"m unlikely to get away from AA on this board.  If I think 77-JJ is in the villains pre-flop calling range then I probably bet around 1/2 pot in the hope it looks like a c-bet from AK.  If he is the sort of player who would reraise with most of the 77-JJ range then I"m probably checking the flop and re-assessing on the turn.  You"re probably less likely to stack villain with this line but give him an extra card to catch-up a bit and more than likely get another bet out of him.

[noble1]

there is nothing wrong with over thinking a hand it shows you are trying to improve your game..

As played in hand 1 it is good that you are trying to be aware of your opponents ranges but when considering there actions try to think what they are putting you on
[if at all with a lot of opponents] and try to remember previous hands played by them for any further clues...Your 2/3 pot flop bet does look like a std cont. bet...without knowing previous actions , your reads on villain and stack sizes beforehand it is difficult to say if you made a good fold or not..

Hand 2 is ok, the size of raise pre is ok ish [std raise plus 1bb for every limper,i"d make it 180 to go] with 2 callers,the flop texture and you out of position the size of bet is fine as is your reasoning to fold due to the action that unfolds..I would note there play for future reference  

keep trying to think out situations , how different styles of players react and how you will adjust to them , slowly everything will come together..

[mal666]

wtf both hands are fistpumps

[mal666]

unless the sng is a don of course,then its an easy fold.