what line of play would u take?

[noble1]

$50+$5 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - Blinds 3500/7000 ante 700
UTG: 138548 M = 8.25  20bb
Hero (UTG+1): 240462 M = 14.31  34bb
UTG+2: 318266 M = 18.94  45bb
MP1: 135668 M = 8.08  19bb
MP2: 272153 M = 16.20  39bb
CO: 277540 M = 16.52  39bb
BTN: 225182 M = 13.40  32bb
SB: 86489 M = 5.15  12bb
BB: 94536 M = 5.63  13bb
Pre Flop: (pot-16800) Hero is UTG+1 with  jh js
UTG raises to 21000, Hero ?

40 players left , so fairly deep in the cash but by no means life changing..
No reads to go by [just moved to table],so what would be your action and why?

[Mikeyboy9361]

UG is 20 BB so not yet on life support, so standard raise from EP you have to put him on PP or Big Ace. Hero is well positioned with 34bb, so does not need to get involved with from early position with no reads, we all know how tricky can be. Having said that if it was me, then I would probs call! And hope to get it through the remaining players, (though setting myself up for a squeeze). Then if the flop is under cards be prepared to push!
But all in all I think the best option would be to lay "em down, cos if you raised you leave yourself open to a push from UG.
God that sounds muddled, who wants to be in my head this morning!

[Mikeyboy9361]

Hey Noble, you must have frightened everybody off!!

[mal666]

3bet to call push

[noble1]

Hey Noble, you must have frightened everybody off!!

seems a std situation , just wanted some opinions.  

[AMRN]

1. CALL? Too many players to act afterwards who might squeeze - and not sure I would want to over commit with JJ at this stage, hence would be folding to a squeeze. Also, if no squeeze comes, and flop comes 10 hi..... and UTG gives you a decision for your whole stack, would you be prepared to call? Possibly not, so better to not flat call preflop.

2. RAISE? Standard raise to around 6000 is a possibility, but would you call a shove from UTG? Possibly not. Also, if UTG plays tricky and calls, then bets a flop with overs....?

3. SHOVE?  No way - the only hands UTG will fold are those which you are beating.

4. FOLD?  There"s got to be a good argument for folding here with so many players to act behind, and against an UTG raise.

I think I would fold in this spot. If a little nearer the button I would probably call and try and play the flop in position. If in the blinds, and the open raise came from late position I would probably make a big raise (possibly even shove).   But in early position, against an UTG raiser, and with a nice sized and playable stack, I"m folding and waiting for a better spot.

[Swinebag]

I honestly think I"d call here

However, I think this may be a bit spewy because as steve (AMRN) says I am folding on a flop with undercards if put under pressure. Are the effective stacks possibly not quite big enough to be set mining here? they probably are too small, so that leaves raise or fold.

A standard reraise to 60-65K commits you to the hand and shoving will only get called by a better hand. With no read on the UTG raiser, you have to think that you are behind his range and given that there are still others to act then fold is possibly the way to go. It just seems a bit nitty to be folding JJ. .

with the fast pace of online tourneys, I"d probably still call....a leak possibly.

[Zanshin]

I agree that it seems a bit nitty to be folding JJ here but I think that's the play I'd make.

New to the table with no reads it is certainly possible that the UTG raise is a steal but It's just as possible that he has a genuine hand and if you raise and he shoves then you can't call.

If you just call and the others at the table are of the opinion (with their extra knowledge of this UTG player) that his 3x raise is a steal then your call is not showing any strength and just building a pot which someone may decided to take a stab at with a push.

If I'd been at this table for a couple of rounds then the situation may have been a lot different but with such a good stack I'd wait for a better spot.

[kinboshi]

You have the 4th best starting hand.  Not sure why everyone"s so keen to fold?

You say you have no reads on the UTG player - so you have to assume he has some sort of hand. 

I raise to isolate, and call a shove from UTG.

[AMRN]

You have the 4th best starting hand.  Not sure why everyone"s so keen to fold?

You say you have no reads on the UTG player - so you have to assume he has some sort of hand. 

I raise to isolate, and call a shove from UTG.

hmmmmmm how would you know what to do Dan? This is way past the end of  Level One!!   ahhhh perhaps therein lies an explanation

[Swinebag]

You have the 4th best starting hand.  Not sure why everyone"s so keen to fold?

You say you have no reads on the UTG player - so you have to assume he has some sort of hand. 

I raise to isolate, and call a shove from UTG.

hmmmmmm how would you know what to do Dan? This is way past the end of  Level One!!   ahhhh perhaps therein lies an explanation

More respect for the 1993 english amateur champ please steve

[George2Loose]

3bet to call push

This.

[noble1]

Because utg steals are so common now [a lot of players still raise fold to 3bets when in the 20bb size area] and that nowadays a lot of players have a huge range utg , if i size my bet and re-raise to 49000 with the intention of calling any all in by MP1 SB BB or UTG 4bet but will fold to a 4bet from any of the other bigger stacks that can bust me.

How would you view this line of play?

[kinboshi]

You have the 4th best starting hand.  Not sure why everyone"s so keen to fold?

You say you have no reads on the UTG player - so you have to assume he has some sort of hand. 

I raise to isolate, and call a shove from UTG.

hmmmmmm how would you know what to do Dan? This is way past the end of  Level One!!   ahhhh perhaps therein lies an explanation

Like that is it?  Maybe I should have mentioned getting it in behind and then hitting my miracle card on the river?

[AMRN]

You have the 4th best starting hand.  Not sure why everyone"s so keen to fold?

You say you have no reads on the UTG player - so you have to assume he has some sort of hand. 

I raise to isolate, and call a shove from UTG.

hmmmmmm how would you know what to do Dan? This is way past the end of  Level One!!   ahhhh perhaps therein lies an explanation

Like that is it?  Maybe I should have mentioned getting it in behind and then hitting my miracle card on the river?

I don"t rely on miracle river cards Dan....... I go the whole hog and rely on perfect runner runners!!