Post flop play - How do you play it and why ?

[noble1]

Why don"t you want the money in here when he has the bare flush draw?

because we do not what he has due to our position....we are rather hoping he has a draw...

but surely you can"t fold to the possibility that he has a flush, so many people overplay overcards with the nut flush draw...this guy didn"t even have that!

I think the way i see it is that leigh did nothing wrong and the other guy overplayed his hand and got lucky, i really don"t think there is anything else to it?!

your basing everything on that leigh has led out , what will happen is that he can only be left with a tricky decision...
Does not being aware of an opponents style/hand ranges/stack size come into the equation at all? is this a small buy in mtt or have i mis-read it...or are the the blinds really 40/80 and there lots of weak players still in?

Meh i must be wrong , forget reads on opponents , forget position , forget taking into account the texture of a flop , just play your cards , never fold and connect BRA to head put on lucky pants and always hope that your opponent has the hand that your beating and get all your chips in.. EASY this poker malarkey  

[noble1]

Why don"t you want the money in here when he has the bare flush draw?

because we do not what he has due to our position....we are rather hoping he has a draw..i just prefer to see a turn card cheap if possible on this type of flop and re-evaluate ... i"m comfortable with a 20bb+ stack...if the blind levels are about due to rise,i might go with it on the flop...all depends on how the table has been up to now and if i feel i can steal a bit etc etc .... like i said the only times i"m cautious with a set is 1 suited flops,straightening boards or some good conservative player is giving action...

noble, you"re overcomplicatiing things. All your doing by checking here is having the player check behind you. If a 4th spade comes down you are very suseptable to  losing the pot even if he has AKdd when the 4th spade falls.

Your too shallow here to not consider getting your money in. If he"s flopped the flush- its a cooler and you have outs anyway.

As it is Leigh gets his stack in the middle as a dominant favourite against our opponent who played his hand pretty horrible imo.

i see where your coming from George , but i"ve played this guy before and have an idea of his hand ranges...in earlier replies i said if Leigh led out then he might get freaky with ace spade decent kicker but TBH he would do that with a non nut made flush [QJss TJss KJss KQss and seeming he is the hi-jack chair 9Tss is a possible] as well....
Leigh being oop against a 1/2 decent player on a horrible 1 suit flop gives us a few problems which is why i prefer a check line approach and see what the turn brings...I would not be happy having to fold what might be the best hand but there is plenty of play left in Leighs stack and you know as well as i that a 20bb stack can cause havac if you choose your opponents wisely...

[Chipaccrual]

Why don"t you want the money in here when he has the bare flush draw?

because we do not what he has due to our position....we are rather hoping he has a draw...

but surely you can"t fold to the possibility that he has a flush, so many people overplay overcards with the nut flush draw...this guy didn"t even have that!

I think the way i see it is that leigh did nothing wrong and the other guy overplayed his hand and got lucky, i really don"t think there is anything else to it?!

your basing everything on that leigh has led out , what will happen is that he can only be left with a tricky decision...
Does not being aware of an opponents style/hand ranges/stack size come into the equation at all? is this a small buy in mtt or have i mis-read it...or are the the blinds really 40/80 and there lots of weak players still in?

Meh i must be wrong , forget reads on opponents , forget position , forget taking into account the texture of a flop , just play your cards , never fold and connect BRA to head put on lucky pants and always hope that your opponent has the hand that your beating and get all your chips in.. EASY this poker malarkey  

The trouble here is that I have limited read on my opponent and assume the table has limited knowledge of me.  I was playing my usual tight game that evening, but that doesn"t help explain the call.  

It"s interesting to hear peoples ways of playing this tricky situation though.

[George2Loose]

Why don"t you want the money in here when he has the bare flush draw?

because we do not what he has due to our position....we are rather hoping he has a draw..i just prefer to see a turn card cheap if possible on this type of flop and re-evaluate ... i"m comfortable with a 20bb+ stack...if the blind levels are about due to rise,i might go with it on the flop...all depends on how the table has been up to now and if i feel i can steal a bit etc etc .... like i said the only times i"m cautious with a set is 1 suited flops,straightening boards or some good conservative player is giving action...

noble, you"re overcomplicatiing things. All your doing by checking here is having the player check behind you. If a 4th spade comes down you are very suseptable to  losing the pot even if he has AKdd when the 4th spade falls.

Your too shallow here to not consider getting your money in. If he"s flopped the flush- its a cooler and you have outs anyway.

As it is Leigh gets his stack in the middle as a dominant favourite against our opponent who played his hand pretty horrible imo.

i see where your coming from George , but i"ve played this guy before and have an idea of his hand ranges...in earlier replies i said if Leigh led out then he might get freaky with ace spade decent kicker but TBH he would do that with a non nut made flush [QJss TJss KJss KQss and seeming he is the hi-jack chair 9Tss is a possible] as well....
Leigh being oop against a 1/2 decent player on a horrible 1 suit flop gives us a few problems which is why i prefer a check line approach and see what the turn brings...I would not be happy having to fold what might be the best hand but there is plenty of play left in Leighs stack and you know as well as i that a 20bb stack can cause havac if you choose your opponents wisely...

Even knowing my opponent- I am going broke with my stack size here. He could be the rockiest rock or the nittest nit I know but the fact is I have top set- I can see many players re raising with an overpair with no spade because they may think your leading with a draw.

Check- raising is a possibility but I want to get my money in NOW and I think leading here is the best way to do it

[bigredders]

Why don"t you want the money in here when he has the bare flush draw?

because we do not what he has due to our position....we are rather hoping he has a draw...

but surely you can"t fold to the possibility that he has a flush, so many people overplay overcards with the nut flush draw...this guy didn"t even have that!

I think the way i see it is that leigh did nothing wrong and the other guy overplayed his hand and got lucky, i really don"t think there is anything else to it?!

your basing everything on that leigh has led out , what will happen is that he can only be left with a tricky decision...
Does not being aware of an opponents style/hand ranges/stack size come into the equation at all? is this a small buy in mtt or have i mis-read it...or are the the blinds really 40/80 and there lots of weak players still in?

Meh i must be wrong , forget reads on opponents , forget position , forget taking into account the texture of a flop , just play your cards , never fold and connect BRA to head put on lucky pants and always hope that your opponent has the hand that your beating and get all your chips in.. EASY this poker malarkey  

im not saying that you shouldn"t take all those things into account, but for me personally i don"t see any way that leigh could have played this differently. We very rarely have the nuts in poker, therefore there is always a hand that can beat us. Am i folding just because he MIGHT have this hand and he MIGHT have that hand, just because we are out of position and there are over 20bb...NO!! He was only beaten by the made flush, and we all know the odds of flopping a flush. Leigh would have won the hand if the guy had correctly folded to the re raise.

there was a situation just a couple of days ago in a hand where i had flopped the nut straight early in a tournament...i had managed to create a big pot when on the turn the guy re raises me all in. I still have the nuts, but there is a draw to a higher straight and im pretty certain the guy has a set( which he did )..... so then do you call with the nuts or fold due to the fact that you could get outdrawn? just because it is a weak table and i have plenty of play left? surely you call in the hope that he doesn"t outdraw you (which he did). I think what im trying to say in a muddled up kind of way is that i hate taking unnecessary risks at the start of a tournament, but there are some situations where the possibility to accumuate chips can"t be turned down. I think leigh got himself in a similar situation to mine, he got it all in good and just hoped not to get outdrawn.

just say he had checked and the villain checked behind...what does leigh do on the turn then? check fold?

[noble1]

this is where our mid/late stage tactics differ , ok some of you want to play this hand now on the flop and hope he has a over pair [thats ok each to there own,i was going by my experience of Big4390"s possible range] ..
I tend to favour taking pots pre-flop or on the flop, but by being the 1st raiser or if i"m calling a raise by being in position [especially if i have a lack of reads on my opponents] True its hard to play a set a wrong way and there numerous ways to get them paid off..The only thing i do not like here is leigh calling and being out of position with as how he puts it ""limited reads"" , your heading for disaster sooner rather than later in big field high buy in mtts if this becomes a habit ...

[George2Loose]

this is where our mid/late stage tactics differ , ok some of you want to play this hand now on the flop and hope he has a over pair [thats ok each to there own,i was going by my experience of Big4390"s possible range] ..
I tend to favour taking pots pre-flop or on the flop, but by being the 1st raiser or if i"m calling a raise by being in position [especially if i have a lack of reads on my opponents] True its hard to play a set a wrong way and there numerous ways to get them paid off..The only thing i do not like here is leigh calling and being out of position with as how he puts it ""limited reads"" , your heading for disaster sooner rather than later in big field high buy in mtts if this becomes a habit ...

From someone who has won numerous big field MTT"s this is exactly the sort of spot you need to get your chips in if you want to WIN rather than cash

[lukybugur]

Had a good chuckle to myself last night when watchin Tom "Durrrr" Dwan on High Stakes Poker (S05 EP04) last night. With 99 he hits trips on an all-spade flop against Eli Elezra (, Ts, I think it was so a high straight-ing board too). He checks it

[kinboshi]

Had a good chuckle to myself last night when watchin Tom "Durrrr" Dwan on High Stakes Poker (S05 EP04) last night. With 99 he hits trips on an all-spade flop against Eli Elezra (, Ts, I think it was so a high straight-ing board too). He checks it

Because he was up against Eli Elezra.

[George2Loose]

Had a good chuckle to myself last night when watchin Tom "Durrrr" Dwan on High Stakes Poker (S05 EP04) last night. With 99 he hits trips on an all-spade flop against Eli Elezra (, Ts, I think it was so a high straight-ing board too). He checks it

Bit different when it"s a cash game. Tom probably had around 200-300 big blinds. If he had 26 I"m sure the money would have been in on the flop

[noble1]

there is always more than 1 way to skin a cat....does playing in a std fashion work ? especially when you know the result!

gr8 leigh lol lol  Grin a situation to analyze with no reads on opponent and no idea of your image to him.

Great flop isn"t it , a set is normally so much fun to play..Put this on most forums and pretty much all replies will be ""protect your hand"" or ""you have a big hand get your chips in""....For me it would be ""it depends""....
The only time i am cautious with a set is when you get flops like this,a straightening board or good conservative players giving you plenty of action....

I have run across him on Full Tilt but i"ve never played him on stars where he plays mainly,and he is tight ABC with the odd move...
So any bet you make on this texture of flop if called will be pretty much the hand you dread AKss AQss AJss ATss KQss KJss TJss or if your lucky a big over pair with a spade...Without knowing what he thinks of your image i would say generally he would if you bet out call the made flush and start jamming on the turn,and if he has a big over pair with a spade given that he has 22bb left he"ll probably re-raise all in...If he has Ace spade with a decent non spade kicker he might get freaky on the flop [given stack size] but that depends on your image and how he would perceive your lead out..
Given your position/stack size i"d take a check call line on the flop and see a turn card if a non pairing non spade turn i"d check call a reasonable bet on the turn and if he fires a 3rd barrel on the river any non pairing card then i"d lay it down..
If he were to check the turn and there is no spade on the river i"d fire out with a value bet and hope he only calls or spew up if he went all in... Grin

From someone who has won numerous big field MTT"s this is exactly the sort of spot you need to get your chips in if you want to WIN rather than cash

[George2Loose]

there is always more than 1 way to skin a cat....does playing in a std fashion work ?

does when your not deep enough- if we"re at the first level here- i check the flop

[noble1]

ok i get your point u think stack size dictates playing your WAY....  fine  

[kinboshi]

ok i get your point u think stack size dictates playing your WAY....  fine  

Surely it does.  Stack size here is a far more important factor than position for me. 

I think it would be a mistake not to get your chips in here.