Righ thing? Wrong Thing?

[rubertoe]

Right I have a question that i would like you all to ponder!!

FT of a $20 2000gtd freezeout 7 players left! Blinds at 600/1200 average stack is about 20k and i have 29k before the cards are dealt

I am in MP one seat before the Cut off - and Have  jc jd and make my standard raise to 3k ( i always like to open for less than 3x the BB) - The Button calls and the BB also Calls,

The Button - has been Fairly Liberal with his calling range and the BB has taken down a few uncotested Pots recently so has a bit of a loose image - I imagine he probably has Ax or a couple of Broad way cards as he has raised out of the BB with small pairs and Big Aces when someone has raised his BB and is currently the Chip leader with 35k

So we See a flop 3 Way with a pot of 9600, flop is  jh qh ,

The BB leads for 32k??!?!? What do you do and Why??

[AMRN]

I call and probably go bust - I"m just not good enough to fold a set at this late stage.

I hope he has an overpair, including a heart.....

[bigredders]

seems like a blatnant ak/aq with one heart. nobody would lead out that amount with a made flush. have to call and just hope you dont get outdrawn

[deanp27]

just snap it off.

proper HHs would be much easier to read though.

If you fold this, I don"t think tournament poker is for you.

[Mikeyboy9361]

Course you"re scared of the flush, but can you really lay down a set? I am calling all day here, and que sera sera.

[Swinebag]

The BB may have 2 small hearts. He may have felt priced into call after your raise was called by the button. This could explain the shove lead because he doesn"t want better FDs trying to out draw him. However he may take a similar line with paired board and or he may have flopped top pair and is trying to protect his hand

As the others have said, you are beating most of his hands here and have to call FTW. If he has a flush, you can still dog him with your 7 outs on the flop and 10 outs on the turn.

I dont know the odds of flopping a flush with 2 suited cards, but I do know it is a long shot, so try not to be too scared when you flop a monster on a flushed board.

[Honeybadg]

Hate it but throw it away ...

Why did you only raise to 3000, did you want a caller?

What does the button have?? (Probably not an issue)

I have seen lots of people lead out with baby flushes ... especially if they are perceived as loose ... as people will call with worse hands like AQ here ...

Could he have A(h)T - straight draw too? (Would obviously call this)

I think it is really hard to fold here ... but problem comes from the initial low raise ... I would raise to 6000 pre-flop and be delighted if they fold.

L

[Swinebag]

I would raise to 6000 pre-flop and be delighted if they fold.

This is surely way too spewy. What do you do if you are reraised? Do you fold after having put over 20% of your stack in? I think 5x BB is ok in the earlier levels but not at the FT. Do you raise 5x BB when you steal with junk? If you do then these steals have to be successful over 77% of the time for them to be profitable.

I actually like the raise to 3000. In a lot of ways you want the call from the BB. He is getting good odds to play a weak hand out of position. This is what you want...flops against weaker hands when in position. If you keep your raising ammounts consistent at the 2.5 BB level you can steal and fold to resistance much easier. Your steals only have to be successful 63% to be profitable

[deanp27]

how many players flop a flush and overshove the pot?

he may do this with 910o but most likely top pair, 2 pair or a big draw/combo (he could even have total air if he is a maniac)

the raise size is perfect, overraising as suggested above is terrible tournament play for a million reasons, now do the right thing and call.

even if you are currently beat you will have c30% equity in the pot for a redraw(cos he never has QQ here).

[kinboshi]

Instacall.

You"re crushing a lot of his range, and only slightly behind a small part of it.  This is what you wanted...

[Honeybadg]

how many players flop a flush and overshove the pot?

he may do this with 910o but most likely top pair, 2 pair or a big draw/combo (he could even have total air if he is a maniac)

the raise size is perfect, overraising as suggested above is terrible tournament play for a million reasons, now do the right thing and call.

even if you are currently beat you will have c30% equity in the pot for a redraw(cos he never has QQ here).

I will be very interested in what "he" did have ... let"s have some of these million reasons ...

If you are putting the 3000 in with a view to folding any re-raise against an active player then you are going to give him a lot of chips late stages ... you might have position but what are you going to do with that with overcards on the board ... do you seriously want called ... kill it and move on ...

L

[Swinebag]

I gave one reason - your steals will not be profitable enough in the long run

another could be that you fold out worse hands and tend to get reraised by only stronger hands. Do you really want to fold after putting in more than 20% of your stack?

[deanp27]

you should make a standard raise irrespective of holding, otherwise you become readable and exploitable. Getting JJ and just hoping everyone folds makes no sense - you have 4/5th best hand yet you want to price all other players out - you may as well be bluffing/stealing.

raising 2.5bb as opposed to 5bb means you can raise more often, it is more profitable and less exploitable. Raise/folding 2.5bb with your weaker holdings is easier/more profitable than it would be with a 5bb raise. Also smaller raises make restealing less profitable for your opponents.

there are a few reasons why opening for 5bb is bad. i can think of a few more.

Basically in relation to this hand, the opening raise is good, the flop is good, he has a wide range that you beat = gogogogo

[noble1]

Fascinating how most perceive the opponents hand range here........
All i will i say is if you flop a flush in a similar situation to this against players who think like you ,then would a over bet of the pot be the best line? most would not put you on a flush..

[deanp27]

Fascinating how most perceive the opponents hand range here........
All i will i say is if you flop a flush in a similar situation to this against players who think like you ,then would a over bet of the pot be the best line? most would not put you on a flush..

agreed but may only work if your opponent has flopped a set.....