check raise or check jam?

[deanp27]

C/c + lead is a weird line but also allows him to play his hand correctly, whilst potentially putting you in a difficult spot. I mean do you lead all turn cards or does it depend? What is your plan?

By all means mix up your play, but in this situation it is the worst option of the three imo, especially with a player behind.

[deanp27]

I love the check/call then lead the turn. Not because its "correct", but because its a great way to mix up your play and would confuse the hell out of your opponent

trouble is that you are crediting him for thinking, not just ZOMG i have the nut flush draw

[Swinebag]

I love the check/call then lead the turn. Not because its "correct", but because its a great way to mix up your play and would confuse the hell out of your opponent

trouble is that you are crediting him for thinking, not just ZOMG i have the nut flush draw

I actually agree with you in this situation, Dean. When i said I liked the CCLT, I didn"t mean in this particular hand

[AMRN]

lol i never said i favoured it in this spot - my original response was "you only ask about raising or jamming - what about flat calling, then leading the turn?"    My point was the OP limited the question to two options, whilst there are surely more.

[kinboshi]

I quite like the line of leading on the flop.

[Marty719]

I 100% lead the flop in this spot and try and mix up sum dry leads in as well.  I think c/c is a bad play in this spot as there are too many action killers on the turn.  What if the turn comes the , then he is shutting down most hands.  I either lead 6k or c/r to 18k and try and get it in against k-x.

[mal666]

lol i never said i favoured it in this spot - my original response was "you only ask about raising or jamming - what about flat calling, then leading the turn?"    My point was the OP limited the question to two options, whilst there are surely more.

Yeah sure there`s more, but if you like money id limit it to these two.

[Marty719]

Surely check-jamming is just an awful play then if ur trying to maximise $$ as, tho u will get max value wen u do get called and have the best hand, the % of time u get called lowers by a massive amount!!  U r really relying on villain having AK and viewing ur overbet as v weak!!  I think if ur aiming to maximise EV in the hand then u have to lead out and hope ur opponent tries to protect his K-x rather than c/r him, put him in defensive mode where he settles for c/c"n down and not stacking off.

[deanp27]

in a way c/jam looks weaker (ie you have the draw) so you get called lighter. I prefer giving villain room and illusion of fold equity so that he makes a mistake personally but i think the difference is mostly villain dependant.

leading is ok in this spot and has become very much a standard play with a set OOP, donking and trying to encourage action - but it can be quite transparent to good players. Again the course of action will depend on the dynamics/history of the table and the villain.

[Marty719]

I think in general u r getting called lighter w/ a lead than a check shove.  It also totally eliminates air from your opponents hand.  The lead/flat/check against an agg opponent is gng to get more value than the c/shove in the long term imo.  I guess the c/shove is likely to look like a big combo draw - but then again - ur opponent mite decide not to flip against it.  Even if they c/c after you lead, you can still get 3 healthy bets paid if the board comes blank blank.  What do you think the opponents calling range is to the c/jam?

[mal666]

What do you think the opponents calling range is to the c/jam?
Obv depends how bad they are, could be anything from A5 + any K + Any draw and some weird 66 above calls too.
And the 2 that crush us obv.

[Marty719]

What do you think the opponents calling range is to the c/jam?
Obv depends how bad they are, could be anything from A5 + any K + Any draw and some weird 66 above calls too.
And the 2 that crush us obv.

But they will call u down w/ that wide range of light hands a highrt % of the time if u fire 3 bullets, or c/r flop, bet turn/river.  I def dnt think any draw is calling either. - maybe nfd or maybe a combo draw.  Ur really hoping for a AK or loose KQ call if u shove.  Big K"s r a major part of their range, but u r giving them a chance to get away from these hands also.  I think unless u have knowledge that the player loves to pay off huge over-bets without big hands, I think it is the worst way to get max value from ur hand.

[mal666]

We are going off the simple assumption that the guy is a douche + the fact its 6max wich seems to magnify simple mistakes ime.

[George2Loose]

lead flop.

As played- think u played it well by jamming