European Amateur Poker Festival - November 2009

[Eck]

PRETTY OBVIOUS REALLY......winners of English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh live events qualify period

You serious that you think this is fair? To win one live event you should get automatically picked ahead of others who may be far more consistent performers? Should the captain be hamstrung into choosing someone who may have run like god for a day or two??? (not suggesting that is the case with anyone btw).

I don"t get the opportunity to play live very often so should I be penalised because of that and those with more live experience and success be given preference? I don"t know the answers to these questions but I think the captains last time made considered choices and it is quite disrespectful to suggest that they won"t do that again.

Personally I would like to play this event (especially after getting an earbashing from Phil Starrs last week   ). All I or anyone else can do is say they would be available and put forward what they think they bring to the table. Therefore if captain is interested I play low to mid stakes tournies on Crypto until recently and now on ipoker and here are my stats for consideration:


http://www.pokerprolabs.com/JimmyEck/ipoker.aspx


If not selected I will be 100% supportive of those that are chosen "mon the Scots!!!  

[Honeybadg]

PRETTY OBVIOUS REALLY......winners of English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh live events qualify period

You serious that you think this is fair? To win one live event you should get automatically picked ahead of others who may be far more consistent performers? Should the captain be hamstrung into choosing someone who may have run like god for a day or two??? (not suggesting that is the case with anyone btw).

I don"t get the opportunity to play live very often so should I be penalised because of that and those with more live experience and success be given preference? I don"t know the answers to these questions but I think the captains last time made considered choices and it is quite disrespectful to suggest that they won"t do that again.

Personally I would like to play this event (especially after getting an earbashing from Phil Starrs last week   ). All I or anyone else can do is say they would be available and put forward what they think they bring to the table. Therefore if captain is interested I play low to mid stakes tournies on Crypto until recently and now on ipoker and here are my stats for consideration:


http://www.pokerprolabs.com/JimmyEck/ipoker.aspx


If not selected I will be 100% supportive of those that are chosen "mon the Scots!!!  

Great graphs ... well played ...

Aside - how do they deal with sats my graphs take a pounding when I lose in the $2.5m g"tee which I qualified for.

L

[Honeybadg]

...
My angle on Captaincy is that the bigger things are the harder it is to pick a team because you may not have full information.

Analogies regarding Pro Sport don"t quite match for me - because there is full(er) info on performance.

It is pretty tough to rate people"s heads up play - even looking at final tables - because often the blinds are so large.

I am sure all the Captains will make the best picks based on the info they have.

My own preference going forward would be to make things objective perhaps with a playing captain. State the criteria at the start of the season and run from there.

Louis

You"ve essentially provided the arguments against your own system.

You won"t have the full information, you can"t judge people"s heads up play, and pro sports rankings are hard to judge even when they have more complete information.

Given how persuasively you"ve argued about how much information is missing, how can the teams be selected objectively?

From a basic statistical point of view there just isn"t a large enough sample size.

So basing any selection on any kind of apparantly objective criteria, isn"t actually objective, it just means people with good variance at the right time get picked.

This only really leaves judgement,  intuitively it seems right that there should and could be a place for the national champions, world champion etc. but at the end of the day if there is no record to objectively measure the best people for the teams (and their isn"t) then leaving it as the Captain"s responsibility - and the Captain"s glory if they win - is the only realistic way to proceed.

When you say that it "is the only realistic way to proceed" ... I don"t find myself agreeing ...

What is unrealistic about offering places to those top of the combined rankings at date x?

You could split the places between rankings and the Captain"s picks - two each - say?

I don"t think I defeat my own argument - it is not correct to say that without 100% info you cannot have objective measures.

"From a basic statistical point of view there just isn"t a large enough sample size."

Add all the APAT events together and you have a system with a similar amount of data to the Ryder Cup qualification system.

I am chilled about all of this - but in terms of adding spice to the APAT season I think some form of qualification for this event would be a good addition (in the future).

Louis

[Mikeyboy9361]

Great stats Eck !

[Jon MW]

...

Add all the APAT events together and you have a system with a similar amount of data to the Ryder Cup qualification system.

I am chilled about all of this - but in terms of adding spice to the APAT season I think some form of qualification for this event would be a good addition (in the future).

Louis

If you add all the APAT events together you you don"t get a similar sample size to the Ryder Cup qualification - you get a similar sample size for all the people who are able to enter all the APAT events.

For those who only enter 2 or 3 a year you have a sample size of 2 or 3 to measure their ability.

I agree a form of qualification would be good, but the only "meaningful" ways of doing this (for example it would have to be live wouldn"t it?) would also be logistically unfeasible - at least in the current climate.

Also, although it is down to the captain"s judgments - the rankings are a very big influence on their opinion where it does provide an appropriate guide.

[Honeybadg]

When are the teams picked?

Is it after the World Championships?

The point was made that the team event is not just an APAT event - but it is driven through the APAT in the UK so I think you could create criteria for automatic entry ... for example topping the "live" rankings. Are none APAT members allowed to participate?

I expect I will play three "live" events this year - and no points from the first one.

From my point of view those who play more of the APAT events should have more claim to a spot - if they claim ranking points etc ...

Aside - I think you could have a cracking open team event - say 50 teams of 4 - for say 4*£75 entry.

Louis

[Jon MW]

[Honeybadg]

[Eck]

Aside - how do they deal with sats my graphs take a pounding when I lose in the $2.5m g"tee which I qualified for.

L

Not sure Louis I had a bit of fun last night i a wee rebuy where someone starting giving other players grief because they played bad   He was telling them no wonder their stats were so bad as they were terrible so i checked his and he was $2k down. He did argue the point a bit saying it can"t pick up his satellite wins so there is probably something to suggest that it misses them.

Shut him up though so it was all good

[Honeybadg]

I mostly play on Betfair so stats rather disappear into space ...

That said having a shocking year ... skimming just about level ...

Last two face to face tournaments called by ridiculous hands late on ... and lost ... GRRR!

KK vs KTs
AJ vs QJ

On both occasions they raised and I put them all in ... big re-raises ... and no need to call ... it"s great that no-one appears to believe me ... but you need the cards to stand up!

Louis

[BOINGBLITZ]

I had a feeling my original post might provoke a few comments !!
At the end of the day, I suppose we would ALL like to play, and only 4 people are going to I guess.
My BCPC will just have to take the team event in December by storm instead !!

On that subject, when are you taking entries Des......I haven"t missed anything on that one have I ??

Speak to you at the weekend mate.

BOING BOING !!

[WASP]

Can"t speak for anyone else but I saw no MAJOR advertisement for Captains. The MAJOR advertisement on the homepage has only appeared now that the Captains have been chosen.
  Therefore, the Captains will choose the players they know, or "friends" to put it another way.....IMO.
Why are the teams not chosen using rankings etc ??
Maybe that would be too obvious and then the "wrong" names would crop up ??

I would have thought this sort of comment was beneath you Brian.  I"m actually very surprised by it.  APAT isn"t in the "friends" or "wrong names" business and you should withdraw that remark unless you have some evidence to back it up with.

Aye spot on Des what a ridiculas comment as it is obvious to everyone that Kinboshi has no friends  

(oops just bokked myself, oh well England FTW!!)

[APAT]

Can"t speak for anyone else but I saw no MAJOR advertisement for Captains. The MAJOR advertisement on the homepage has only appeared now that the Captains have been chosen.
  Therefore, the Captains will choose the players they know, or "friends" to put it another way.....IMO.
Why are the teams not chosen using rankings etc ??
Maybe that would be too obvious and then the "wrong" names would crop up ??

I would have thought this sort of comment was beneath you Brian.  I"m actually very surprised by it.  APAT isn"t in the "friends" or "wrong names" business and you should withdraw that remark unless you have some evidence to back it up with.

Aye spot on Des what a ridiculas comment as it is obvious to everyone that Kinboshi has no friends  

(oops just bokked myself, oh well England FTW!!)

Not a problem now that Mr Yates will be representing Ireland    ...although I"m still expecting the extraction requested above.

[BOINGBLITZ]

Well after everyone has been extracting the urine all weekend....I retract the comment unreservedly..........can I have a seat now then ??!!

[Mikeyboy9361]

LOL just LOL