Honesty at the table??

[TightEnd]

Just to let you know that I"ve seen the thread and will discuss the various aspects of it with Des. We are also aware of many issues surrounding Dealers/TD over the weekend, which I won"t go into in public, but will undoubtedly have a bearing on our thoughts towards the venue in future

[George2Loose]

Can I point out on one hand where the APAT spirit was seen:

Two tables out Geo (George Dickinson) Raised from small to big blind to 18k at blinds 3000/6000

The other player announced all in quietly and threw in the 15k to match the bet.

The dealer having not heard the all in proceeded to deal the flop.

Obv much confusion and before a ruling could be made Geo said "I wasn"t calling an all in anyway so the flop makes no difference" and mucked

Class

[mattblue]

well  i had a great day + only think wrong on my table was my bad play well done des and his team and the dealers on my table woop woop roll on dtd o yeah and the cards do the talk winning hand takes all i had it in j10 last week in six card he hit 2 pair on river and missed it and i point it out didnt take me long to smash him and get it all off him the right way

[K3vl4rUK]

we had an awful dealer at my second table. Doubt LEigh will remember him coz he only dealt him one hand before i knocked him out . But Seriously, had never dealt with antes by the looks of it and was constantly stopping to think where to throw cards first and then was offering discounts to people off the big blind coz they had an ante in :S CRAZY!

[CrizzyConnor]

I agree with whats been said so far, in a cash game you should keep your mouth shut but in a tournament once cards are at showdown the best hand should win no matter who points it out and the player shouldn"t get annoyed about it unless they want to cheat their way to victory IMO. Same goes with the incident where the wrong change was given - if the player in question had any ounce of intergrity then he should have immediately offered up the chips he was wrongly given, if he never then he"s no better than a cheat... again IMO.

but will undoubtedly have a bearing on our thoughts towards the venue in future

Ship it to Glasgow --- the Alea and the Mint could both match capacity
(the Alea could probably up the capacity a little with a little organisation).

[K3vl4rUK]

I agree with whats been said so far, in a cash game you should keep your mouth shut but in a tournament once cards are at showdown the best hand should win no matter who points it out and the player shouldn"t get annoyed about it unless they want to cheat their way to victory IMO. Same goes with the incident where the wrong change was given - if the player in question had any ounce of intergrity then he should have immediately offered up the chips he was wrongly given, if he never then he"s no better than a cheat... again IMO.

but will undoubtedly have a bearing on our thoughts towards the venue in future

Ship it to Glasgow --- the Alea and the Mint could both match capacity
(the Alea could probably up the capacity a little with a little organisation).

i second this motion!

[Honeybadg]

Overall tournament was very well run ...

In terms of the individual scenarios flagged I would be interested in the official APAT view.

As a general point it would be really useful to have a quick APAT onsite briefing about the spirit the game should be played in and to clarify things with regards to best hand wins at showdown etc ...

Also interested in the official APAT view on the dealers/TDs and what you should do as a player if things are going wrong with dealers/rulings?

My take is with dealers be supportive/patient - ask for a TD quickly.

How mush guidance does APAT give to the TDs? There seemed to be a lot of variation on dealing practices and rulings.

I look forward to thoughts.

Louis

[WYoung83]

The dealer at my first table was not to great either (Table 10 i think), he was constantly giving the wrong change, pushing pots to losing players etc...

i say play in the circus next year. that was a nice place. better chips, better tables and able to fit 200 runners....the Apat mob who went down there would agree. About 20 or so of us i think...

[K3vl4rUK]

one thing that really annoyed me was the dealer we got on table 7 after a wee while decided to flip my cards over after i mucked when opponent showed the winning hand after the river :/ first time it had happened on the table all day and i wasnt happy tbh.

[THEGUY84]

I agree with whats been said so far, in a cash game you should keep your mouth shut but in a tournament once cards are at showdown the best hand should win no matter who points it out and the player shouldn"t get annoyed about it unless they want to cheat their way to victory IMO. Same goes with the incident where the wrong change was given - if the player in question had any ounce of intergrity then he should have immediately offered up the chips he was wrongly given, if he never then he"s no better than a cheat... again IMO.

but will undoubtedly have a bearing on our thoughts towards the venue in future

Ship it to Glasgow --- the Alea and the Mint could both match capacity
(the Alea could probably up the capacity a little with a little organisation).

i second this motion!

I third this motion. MOTION PASSED LOL!!

Im gutted couldnt make scottish but saving all my money for Vegas, (BRAG). I think it is only right for a player to point out the winning hand if it is missed by the dealer, especialy if the hand is shown face up. But if the hand had been mucked it just bad luck!

Will see ya all at the worlds, cant wait!!

[Geo]

Being a local player I"m obviously dissapointed that I witnessed too many unsavoury incidents at my home national and without doubt some of these were escalated by some players forgetting, or possibly not knowing the APAT ethos.

Yes dealers will make errors, however I believe we all, as pokerists and friends have a duty to assist in pointing out errors and ensuring the correct rulings are being applied, whether we are involved in the hand or not.

Remember that a few of the dealers are drafted in from other Galas around the area and it may be difficult for the TD to know the skill level of the dealers he has been given for the day. It was obvious that a few were not used to dealing poker games and had difficulty with pots, change,early flops etc.

I started on table 9 and the young lad did not seem to have a clue, we were lucky that the players on the table recognised this and we assisted him as much we could, repeatedly telling him to take his time and not to panic.

I had a word with the TD and asked him to keep an eye on him and shortly after this we had to call over the TD when this happened:

I and one other had limped in, folded to BB who now had options and started to think. Dealer collected the chips into the centre and started to deal a flop, he burned then turned a K before we could stop him and pointed out that the BB had still to declare what action he wanted to take.

We had a quick chat amongst ourselves and we all agreed that the K should be placed into the pack and reshuffled but we were mixed upon what other action was required so we called over the TD.

The ruling was that the remaining flop, turn and river be dealt face down and the K placed into the pack and then reshuffled as the K must be given a chance. The BB was now given his option before the next card was dealt, replacing the K. and then the remaining 2 flop cards were turned face up. I believe this was probably the fairest and correct ruling.

I benefitted from a then 8 high flop and after raising the BB folded AK, very unlucky for him.

I was particularly disturbed by the guy who was abusive to Tighty before we started the SNG after the days play had ended. That he was allowed to go on for as long as he did with staff in attendance was totally unacceptable.

Well done Mr Prew on showing such restraint.

Very dissapointing after season 1 and 2 going so well. Looks like we"ll be up in Aberdeen at the new Grosvener next year, wrap up warm guys and gals.

Geo

[BOINGBLITZ]

To me, if you have got to cheat to call yourself a winner, then you are only fooling yourself.
As far as the Maybury goes, it was by far the worse casino that I have played an APAT event in. Poor dealers, too many incidents allowed to pass unpunished......and as for the "Buffet".......well we BCPC players had to go for a dodgy curry just to get rid of the taste !!.....Thos pies MUST have been pinched from Hadrian"s Wall.
 I am not averse to a bit of fun, but Scouse gets banned for foul language yet players having had too many sherbets here can roll around the floor in the main bar area without even a word of warning ??
 Nothing against anyone involved personally but one wrong move or word and it couldv"e turned ugly IMO.
 Circus was much better and Steve and Paul McG will vouch for the cash-games there too.

Anyway, well done the APAT organisers once again and ROLL ON THE WORLDS.

[lukybugur]

I was particularly disturbed by the guy who was abusive to Tighty before we started the SNG after the days play had ended. That he was allowed to go on for as long as he did with staff in attendance was totally unacceptable.

Well done Mr Prew on showing such restraint.

First off, please let me acknowledge that it was me who helped this a**ehole secure a seat at this event. And for that, please know that it is something I 100% regret.

Jim Lang has been loud and obnoxious at previous APATs and two other poker tournaments I"ve played with him at but not abusive to the best of my knowledge. Yes, we"ve always known that there WOULD be a time when he"d step so far over the line we"d want to completely disown him ... those who knew him as well as I do weren"t prepared for just how nasty it would get on Saturday though. Those who know him best though ... well they knew to get the hell away from him at the earliest opportunity (two had the foresight and left as soon as they got put out).

A good few people who"s face he got up into are to be commended for showing restraint (Rich mostly - I read that he was boiling inside on his Blog on Blonde) and yes, I agree it was poor that he was allowed to remain in the building hurling such abuse for so long. As someone he considered a friend (I"ve spent most of the last year I"ve known him avoiding calls etc.) I was 50/50 on whether I wanted to hustle him out the door and hope casino staff had the sense to lock him out, or knock his teeth in. I opted for the former (not soon enough I know) but was happy waking up next morning with the minimum regret.

As his "friend", first thing on Sunday morning I sent him a straight-to-the-point text message saying that I never wanted to hear from him again, and that he would not be welcome at any future APAT Events. As an APAT Manager, I"ve taken a step towards ensuring he is unable to do this again.

[MAIR]

Just a small bit from me re what you have said Neil, I was very offended by Jim.  In his drunken state, whilst I was in a hand playing, he was making loud innappropriate comments to me and ended up scratching my back which was bloody sore as he was trying to get my attention, following me round the casino being loud and rude was embarrassing too.

As for the incident before the SNG, I was so disgusted with his behaviour I walked away for a while in the hope it would have calmed down when I returned.

Another lady I was sitting with watching FT (not sure of her name but she played APAT) told me that he was very rude and continually embarrassed her in front of her fiance with crude comments.

Personally, I would like to see him get a lifetime ban from APAT.

[Mikeyboy9361]

Wasn"t there, but the guys behaviour sounds totally un acceptable, well done Neil for your quick actions and re actions, and I agree with Mair, ban the guy from ever playing APAT again.