Hand Near The Bubble

[Chipaccrual]

This is a hand from a tourney that is just on the bubble.  592 starters, 90 get paid, 95 players left at this point about 3hrs in.

4 players in the hand.  saffff has been 3 betting a number of hands lately and won pots without showing any cards.  Little to say about the other two players.


PokerStars Game $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) -
Table "187196973 28" 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Chipaccrual (20586 in chips)
Seat 2: M0ksa23 (26553 in chips)
Seat 3: boozejockey (20888 in chips)
Seat 4: Hellet86 (11475 in chips)
Seat 5: sevenphhh (14687 in chips)
Seat 6: SurplusSteve (8428 in chips)
Seat 7: safffff (45187 in chips)
Seat 8: EDGOVAYOU (9561 in chips)
Seat 9: smudge22 (20257 in chips)
Chipaccrual: posts the ante 75
M0ksa23: posts the ante 75
boozejockey: posts the ante 75
Hellet86: posts the ante 75
sevenphhh: posts the ante 75
SurplusSteve: posts the ante 75
safffff: posts the ante 75
EDGOVAYOU: posts the ante 75
smudge22: posts the ante 75
M0ksa23: posts small blind 400
boozejockey: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Chipaccrual [js jd]
Hellet86: folds
sevenphhh: raises 1600 to 2400
SurplusSteve: folds
safffff: calls 2400
EDGOVAYOU: folds
smudge22: folds
Chipaccrual: calls 2400
M0ksa23: folds
boozejockey: calls 1600
*** FLOP *** [ ]
boozejockey: checks
sevenphhh: checks
safffff: bets 3750


What"s your move here and why ?

[jbworldwide]

firstly why on earth did you not raise pre from the button? Yes it"s JJ and yes it is nice to see a flop and proceed but you have no info so you are stuck in a situation like this.

and now you have a decision to make which would of been easier if you had raised.

so he has bet just over 1/3 of pot, either he is being trappy of he has something like A8.

I think I am probably chucking in a raise to 8k or all in, don"t know depends on my gut feeling.

[Chipaccrual]

firstly why on earth did you not raise pre from the button? Yes it"s JJ and yes it is nice to see a flop and proceed but you have no info so you are stuck in a situation like this.

and now you have a decision to make which would of been easier if you had raised.

so he has bet just over 1/3 of pot, either he is being trappy of he has something like A8.

I think I am probably chucking in a raise to 8k or all in, don"t know depends on my gut feeling.

Out of curiosity, what would you have raised to preflop, and what would you then do if he reshoved ?

[jbworldwide]

firstly why on earth did you not raise pre from the button? Yes it"s JJ and yes it is nice to see a flop and proceed but you have no info so you are stuck in a situation like this.

and now you have a decision to make which would of been easier if you had raised.

so he has bet just over 1/3 of pot, either he is being trappy of he has something like A8.

I think I am probably chucking in a raise to 8k or all in, don"t know depends on my gut feeling.

Out of curiosity, what would you have raised to preflop, and what would you then do if he reshoved ?

put it up to about 7k pre, leaves you 13k behind which you can do something with if you feel you should fold.

if any of them re-shove here I am not feeling too good about my JJ. AK, AQ etc will prob flat here as if they miss they can fold to make the money. AA KK QQ will prob be shoving pre flop.

In which case if they do flat then i would be shoving on that flop.

even though I do comment on these scenarios occasionally, I find it hard to define exactly what I would do as I prob think differently when I am in the game.

[Marty719]

I almost certainly make it 7k and insta call when he shoves (u r 100% commited).  F/c"n here at this stage is poor as ur opponent can fold a wider range 2ur 3-bet pre, and u wana b keeping the pressure on.  Most online tournies have a very top-heavy prize structure and there is little value in scraping into the $.  Put the pressure back on him and try and get urself into a good spot to tid imo.

As played...shove flop

[coprey]

I almost certainly make it 7k and insta call when he shoves (u r 100% commited).  F/c"n here at this stage is poor as ur opponent can fold a wider range 2ur 3-bet pre, and u wana b keeping the pressure on.  Most online tournies have a very top-heavy prize structure and there is little value in scraping into the $.  Put the pressure back on him and try and get urself into a good spot to tid imo.

As played...shove flop

Im agreeing, with multiple callers its going to be nearly impossible to play this hand after the flop. So the choice is fold to the money or put maximum pressure on your opponents. If this was a $5 game im gonna play fearlessly and push preflop. Shove this flop is ok.

[LongshanksED]

Pre flop I"d have raised to try and isolate just one player. Then could evaluate once flop is dealt

in a multiway pot I"m not sure were we are now.

[Marty719]

On another note - if safff is 3betting a wide % and flats here I think we can discount him having a big hand!  

Pre flop I"d have raised to try and isolate just one player. Then could evaluate once flop is dealt

in a multiway pot I"m not sure were we are now.

If we isolate against the original raiser - there is no real room for re-evaluation as he only started the hand w/ 14.5k ish.  Its hard to put soo mcuh in and give up on it.

[kinboshi]

I definitely re-raise pre here.  I bet more than enough to make it look like a squeeze, and then snap off anyone who goes over the top.

[lukybugur]

JJ - eeesh

IMO, the 3750 "feeler" bet into a pot of around 7800 with 4 players still in indicates to me that he"s either gonna shove or fold this hand if / when he meets resistance. And unfortunately you don"t have enough chips behind to raise > fold.

- booze we kinda have to discount from this hand (other two are more of a worry as they"ve shown more strength)
- Sevenphhh has raised UTG so you have to give credit for a strong playable hand, and possible check>raise
- saffff has bet out in a 4 way pot so again, you have to give at least a little credit for a strong playable hand

With the blind levels as they are, and although you are last to act, you are in a bad position here - ldo. Shoving is not a terrible play if you think saffff"s weak and stealing as it"s likely you could add 50% to your stack without showdown as his <4k bet has left him enough fold equity with a vast range of hands. But, in a 4 way pot, it"s much different. I"d prob still lean more towards shoving here though as saffff just flat called the flop, which hopefully discounts QQ, KK or AA. Just hope that the other two aren"t holding a 7.

+EV play is shove IMO as it also means that either booze and sevenphhh HAVE to be holding a monster to stay involved.

[deanp27]

rewind and get it all in preflop somehow

i think 7k is too small personally, 10k is half your stack

i don"t even mind jamming here, making it look like a weak squeeze

and i don"t care if it is the money bubble, that is for the other players to worry about.

as played i may call and see what happens, but i wouldn"t be there in the first place

[duke3016]

All in pre: but that"s just me  

[GR8TFL0P]

My thinking (or not)

utg - poss monster or thin air.

Then staffff - from you history = I feel is calling and looking to steal on a poor flop. If he had a monster I feel he would be reraising here.
 
you - JJ (I would have shoved pre to try to isolate to one player. I would rather play one with AK,KK AA etc than four random players) or fold JJ IF you wish to limp to money.

BB - boozy (prob priced in 1600 to see the flop)



So after the flop with a Check check bet (steffff betting almost equates to a check LOL)

I'm shoving, again to isolate

Steffff or the BB may have hit a 7  

UTG poss A + K,Q,J or PP up    
Hoping to take one with me and hoping he has AJ or 1010

[lukybugur]

+EV play is shove IMO as it also means that either booze and sevenphhh HAVE to be holding a monster to stay involved.

Hoping to take one with me and hoping he has AJ or 1010

That"s the problem IMO, you"re now only gonna get called by a hand that beats you or a 50/50 hand like AXclubs in this spot. But by getting them in first, it"s them who have the decision to make and you stand a very decent chance of "stealing" the 11k pot.

[Chipaccrual]

Okay, I think we are all in agreement that a shove preflop may have been the best move here.  The problem with that was I had run pairs into better pairs all morning and that was playing in the back of my mind.  Shouldn"t have been, but it was.

boozejockey: checks
sevenphhh: checks
safffff: bets 3750
Chipaccrual: calls 3750
boozejockey: folds
sevenphhh: folds
*** TURN *** [ ] []
safffff: bets 5500
Chipaccrual: calls 5500
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
safffff: bets 33462 and is all-in
Chipaccrual: calls 8861 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (24601) returned to saffffff


Feel free to flame away with my bad play to get to this point.  I know it, but it never hurts to remind me of it.

So, any guesses what safffff flipped over at the showdown and who therefore won the hand ?