Calling Range when the Short Stack pushes in?

[AceOnTheRiver]

Following an online game last night I"m curious as to people"s opinions on this.

We are in the later stages but still some way off the money.

In early position a player shoves for c. 7 x BB. I am in late position with   with around 12 x BB. I was calling as soon as it was folded to me as the player"s range is increased by his stack size and the fact that he is in the BB in 1 or 2 hands.

I know that a race is likely but I also feel that his range in this situation include A8 & below. On reflection there are 2 ways to view this. Either "I"m not risking 60% of my stack in a race" or "I will take the chance to increse my stack to around arverage when I am likely to be 50% maybe 70%".

Just wondering what other players consider their calling range in circumstances like this.

Obv he had  ac qh & first card out was qd  

[AMRN]

calling isn"t an option - has to be shove or fold.

88 against a 7xBB shortstack is good enough for me - with only 12xBB you don"t have time to wait for AA.

[Mikeyboy9361]

With you still being a "way off" the money, I would say its a pretty much Insta shove. If you are approaching the money or trying to ladder, then there may be an excuse for folding. If you are just interested in PFTW then its a shove again, even though you are ahead of his range you could be pretty much racing.

[deanp27]

probably calling(shoving in reality) with 77+AJ+

[lukybugur]

In this kinda spot, my calling range has prob got to be TT / AJo and better. Risking more than 50% of your stack on what all too often is a "50/50 at best" just doesn"t seem like the "correct" play IMO. Only if I was 22xBBs deep, would I be comfortable calling / pushing with hands like 88.

Get your chips in first in another hand - most opps will still have good Fold Equity against a 12xBB stack.

I"m a nit tho - feel free to tell me I"m wrong.

[smileriraq]

The first clue is that he shoved in early position which should narrow his range down a bit as if hes unlikely to push early with A8 etc because he has too many people to act behind him and while he has only 7 X BB  your not that far behind him either so its not so much what has he got its wether you have a good enough hand to beat what he has got. Your best case scenario is that its a race which is basically a coinflip

personally id agree with Burger and 1010 and above and AJos

the only thing you havent mentioned is his style ie has he shown to be loose , aggressive etc which would also have a bearing on my calling range

[deanp27]

if you are not calling with then i would take AJ out of your calling range

[AMRN]

The first clue is that he shoved in early position which should narrow his range down a bit as if hes unlikely to push early with A8 etc

That kinda works.... BUT, with the blinds about to come through him and turn him from a short stack to a micro stack, I would suggest that perhaps his range is actually really wide here, and could even include hands like 45s where he knows he has live cards if called.

feel free to tell me I"m wrong

you"re wrong

[WYoung83]

i had a hand almost identical to this recently in the ME in nottingham. It was day 2 and with about 30ish players left someone shoved and i found 77. Stack sizes were almost similar, and with the antes also out there it ment the cost of living was to high to fold. So i called (well shoved to isolate) and won the flip when he had A-9 suited.

I could of folded, but felt that to make the final table, which is always the target with 3 tables left, It gave me valuable ammo to try and go for a push or at least get a bit of breathing space. Needless to say i got knocked out about 1 hr later anyway......

[AMRN]

Needless to say i got knocked out about 1 hr later anyway......

....and the rankings leader was very appreciative of this

[LongshanksED]

It"s a fold for me. I"m not one for risking my entire tourney on a coinflip

I"d need jj or better pairs and ak or aq. Nothing else.

If i was 1st to act I"d have jammed it in instantly. But probably get called by someone who thinks A7o or J10 is good enough to call 12bb and get sucked out on

[AceOnTheRiver]

By calling, I meant Shoving. The thread should be called "Shoving Range......"

Interesting responses, so far some different opinons but more favouring the shove.

Thanks all.

JP

[Robbiebox]

I don"t know about instant, but pretty sure I"d call every time here. I think there are a lot of hands you are well ahead  of here ( small aces and small pairs) and only a few you are behind to. Even if he has AK/AQ here you are not 50/50 but more 55/45.

Even if you lose you are still only a one double up hand back to where you are now.

I know APAT players tend to be a tight bunch but I am amazed at the number of nits that have advocated a fold here.

[George2Loose]

His range is mad wide and you have 12 bigs. Stop slow rolling!

[WYoung83]

Apat players are way too nitty.....thats the reason why these tourneys become a crap shoot with a few tables left, people have been hanging on and on, waiting for that big doubble up (which usually never happens) and this causes all the chips to be spread over around 50 players, instead of 20 players, so evan the chip leader never really has a full arsenal of weapons to use.

If you were to watch the same structure tourney, with the same number of entrats, but instead of ammutures, every player was a pro, i would not be surprised if it got down to around 15 players for day two instead of the normal 40 or so........so come on lets gamble in Bolton people.......i know that i will.